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Minutes, SVG telcon Thursday 9 October 2008

From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:03:51 +1000
Message-ID: <48EDF327.7090600@cisra.canon.com.au>
To: W3C SVG Public Working Group <public-svg-wg@w3.org>

http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html

---

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

09 Oct 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0028.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           [IPcaller], ed, lee, anthony, Shepazu, Doug_Schepers

    Regrets
    Chair
           SV_MEETING_CHAIR

    Scribe
           erik, anthony

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Tests that depend on NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR exceptions from
             TraitAccess
          2. [6]Implementation report
          3. [7]Last Call Comments
      * [8]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot> Date: 09 October 2008

    [9]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/

       [9] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/

    <scribe> scribe: erik

    <scribe> scribeNick: ed

Tests that depend on NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR exceptions from TraitAccess

    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/001
    6.html

      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0016.html

    ED: future specs may allow it

    <anthony> scribe: anthony

    <ed> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2094

      [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2094

    ED: This issue is related for trait access on animation elements
    ... is this something we should allow?
    ... would it give any effect if you didn't throw an exception?

    LM: Not sure

    <ed>
    [12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0028.html

      [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Oct/0028.html

    ED: [Explains Opera behavior]
    ... the above link is somewhat related
    ... not sure on the best way to solve this

    AG: What's he recommending?

    ED: He suggests that set trait should not throw
    ... but no indication as to what to change the behavior to
    ... would be good to have a clear resolution that addresses this
    comment

    LM: How many sub-cases involved?

    ED: 3 or 4 tests
    ... I think 1 or 2 of those are just because of this requirement
    ... what I could do is go through and review those tests
    ... I'd like to remove the tests that rely on the exceptions
    ... and wait for feedback
    ... if there is no feedback we can wait for the next version

    LM: Fine with me

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Remove the sub tests from the trait tests
    that relies on not supported error to be thrown [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2282 - Remove the sub tests from the trait
    tests that relies on not supported error to be thrown [on Erik
    Dahlström - due 2008-10-16].

Implementation report

    ED: We have a report in CVS

    <ed> bitflash now passes styling_inherit_03, linking-frag-203

    <ed> opera now passes udom-glob-203 and 204

    <ed> and by changing udom-glob-202 to use new Location syntax three
    implementations pass (firefox, opera, safari)

    ED: When do we expect to make the final report?

    DS: We are doing that at TPAC

    ED: We have a few tests at risk but much less than before
    ... did we want to postpone verification at TPAC?
    ... it would probably be a good idea to keep this updated

    <scribe> ACTION: Doug to convert the Xls spread sheet into HTML
    [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2283 - Convert the Xls spread sheet into
    HTML [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-16].

    DS: We can update the chart then verify at TPAC

Last Call Comments

    <ed> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11

      [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11

    ISSUE-2064?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2064 -- type or typeof? -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [16]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2064

      [16] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2064

    ED: I completed an action to make type animatable for image, audio
    and video
    ... that's committed and done
    ... not sure if that address all of his comment

    DS: Didn't I have an action to respond once that was done?

    ED: Ok, can move on then

    ISSUE-2066?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2066 -- datatype (5.10.1) -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2066

      [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2066

    DS: I think I did resolve this

    ISSUE-2068?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2068 -- focusHighlight must be inheritable --
    RAISED

    <trackbot> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2068

      [18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2068

    DS: I have an action about this
    ... and we decided not to change it

    ISSUE-2073?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2073 -- inverse and constrained transformations --
    RAISED

    <trackbot> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073

      [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2073

    ED: He's asking what happens with animation if you get a
    non-invertable matrix
    ... I guess it is possible animating between values

    AG: Not sure

    ED: Would somehow have to get a rounding value that works

    DS: Does have a suggestion about what we should do

    ED: From what I read he's suggesting to test it first

    AG: Wouldn't that slow you down for a large animation

    ED: Might be a good idea to ask for examples or tests
    ... if you have a non-scaling stroke you might see this
    ... I think he's right about that

    AG: We could put a warning in

    ED: He has suggested to put a warning in for authors

    DS: I'd suggest we put a warning in

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Put a warning in the spec regarding
    non-invertable matrices when animating transforms. Email back Dr
    Hoffmann [recorded in
    [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2284 - Put a warning in the spec regarding
    non-invertable matrices when animating transforms. Email back Dr
    Hoffmann [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-16].

    ISSUE-2062?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2062 -- foreignObject content and referenced
    resource -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062

      [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062

    ED: His second and third points are left to discuss
    ... I agree fully with the 2nd point there
    ... the spec has no description on this
    ... I think that if you have xlink:href then you render that
    ... then if you don't render child content
    ... I think Chris has an action to address the first point and part
    of the 2nd

    DS: It's completely unspecified what happens
    ... we're essentially adding functionality here
    ... seems unreasonable to me

    ED: It's not really testable though
    ... can't really rely on it being handled
    ... I'd probably prefer it to be defined rather than undefined

    DS: I'm not sure it was a good idea to add the xlink:href attribute

    AG: Not sure if we can remove it

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Clarify the second point of Issue-2062
    [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2285 - Clarify the second point of
    Issue-2062 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-16].

    ED: The third part is about how it doesn't create it's own viewPort
    ... I'm not sure really what to do there
    ... was this something we decided a long time ago?

    DS: No idea
    ... but it seems to me it should

    ED: I agree

    AG: Is that a new feature then?

    DS: We could say it's not for Tiny because we don't let things
    establish new viewPorts in Tiny

    ED: Chris had an action about restricting foreignObject
    ... I'd prefer to align with 1.1

    DS: Are you saying it should establish it's own viewPort in Tiny?

    ED: I think it should
    ... but how it is used by the foreign content is up to the foreign
    content
    ... it'd be kind of strange if foreignObject could be drawn anywhere
    without any defined area

    DS: Yes it would be strange - but do we have anything else that
    defines its own viewPort in Tiny?

    ED: We have animation

    DS: Are we going to need to make tests for this?

    ED: Quite difficult because it's foreign content

    DS: My concern is passing implementations for this

    LM: We do do foreignObject handling
    ... not sure what our status is about viewPort though
    ... we do handle it to some degree

    ED: So Opera does handling
    ... there is handling in FF
    ... but not with the xlink:href

    LM: I think we'd have to create a test to find out what everyones
    status is

    ISSUE-2074?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2074 -- WAI-ARIA use of @role as discussed under
    'extensible metadata attributes' -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2074

      [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2074

    DS: I've replied to Al
    ... I've changed the spec to use the modified version of his wording
    ... hopefully we'll get a reply back

    ISSUE-2076?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2076 -- should @role in SVG be animatable? --
    RAISED

    <trackbot> [24]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2076

      [24] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2076

    DS: I've replied to Al
    ... I explained why I think it should be animatable
    ... not sure if this is a satisfactory answer to him

    ISSUE-2077?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2077 -- font-variant not animatable -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [25]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2077

      [25] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2077

    ED: This is pretty simple

    <scribe> ACTION: Erik to Change font-variant so that it is
    animatable and send a reply email [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2286 - Change font-variant so that it is
    animatable and send a reply email [on Erik Dahlström - due
    2008-10-16].

    ISSUE-2079?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2079 -- Better specify the effects of audio and
    rendering -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [27]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2079

      [27] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2079

    DS: I have an action I haven't completed on this yet

    ED: It's pending review
    ... is it completed?

    DS: No will be finished today

    ISSUE-2080?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2080 -- Clarify focusable=auto -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [28]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080

      [28] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2080

    ED: This comment was raised in the Test Fest
    ... I did make changes to clarify the behavior
    ... I think Niklas raised the issue
    ... I can mail the list and check if my change is ok

    ISSUE-2081?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2081 -- target element for an animation -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [29]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2081

      [29] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2081

    DS: He does make a suggestion about what to do
    ... we should hold off until tomorrow and everyone should read his
    issues before then

    ISSUE-2087?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2087 -- Replace gotoLocation with a subset of
    Window.location -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [30]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2087

      [30] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2087

    ED: I raised
    ... I have committed the proposed changes to the spec
    ... and got feedback from Cameron and made fixes
    ... All I need is feedback to say this is ok and to commit test
    chagnes

    <ed> ACTION: ed to change udom-glob-202 to use Location.assign
    instead of gotoLocation [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2287 - Change udom-glob-202 to use
    Location.assign instead of gotoLocation [on Erik Dahlström - due
    2008-10-16].

    ED: If there are no objections now, I will close the issue and
    change the tests

    ISSUE-2090?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2090 -- @aria-foo atributes: un-prefixed,
    forbidden? -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2090

      [32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2090

    DS: I responded to Al
    ... waiting to hear back

    ISSUE-2081?

    <trackbot> ISSUE-2081 -- target element for an animation -- RAISED

    <trackbot> [33]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2081

      [33] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2081

    ED: He has a suggestion
    ... I'd be fine with the first suggestion
    ... I'd be ok with the second one as well
    ... He raises a last question what would the applicable target
    element would be
    ... Doing the changes would be pretty simple

    <scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Make changes as per the suggestions by
    Dr Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2081 and send a reply email [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2288 - Make changes as per the suggestions
    by Dr Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2081 and send a reply email [on
    Anthony Grasso - due 2008-10-16].

    ISSUE-2082?

    RSSAgent, make minutes

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Make changes as per the suggestions by Dr
    Hoffmann regarding ISSUE-2081 and send a reply email [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action07]
    [NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Put a warning in the spec regarding
    non-invertable matrices when animating transforms. Email back Dr
    Hoffmann [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Doug to convert the Xls spread sheet into HTML
    [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: ed to change udom-glob-202 to use Location.assign
    instead of gotoLocation [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Change font-variant so that it is animatable
    and send a reply email [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Clarify the second point of Issue-2062
    [recorded in
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: Erik to Remove the sub tests from the trait tests that
    relies on not supported error to be thrown [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [42]scribe.perl version 1.133
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     $Date: 2008/10/09 11:56:34 $
      _________________________________________________________

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

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Default Present: [IPcaller], ed, lee, anthony, Shepazu, Doug_Schepers
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Agenda: [45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDe
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      [45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008OctDec/0028.html

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
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Found Date: 09 Oct 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [46]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html
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      [46] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/09-svg-minutes.html

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      [47] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
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