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Minutes, 7 October 2008 SVG WG telcon

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:59:09 +0200
Message-ID: <798211825.20081007145909@w3.org>
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org

Hello public-svg-wg,

Minutes of todays call are here
http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html

and below as text for trackbot.

                   SVG Working Group Teleconference

07 Oct 2008

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          ed, +1.613.445.aaaa, lee, ChrisL, Doug

   Regrets
          Cameron, Andrew_Emmons, Anthony

   Chair
          Erik

   Scribe
          Chris

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Last Call Comments
         2. [5]Issue 2055
         3. [6]Issue 2057
         4. [7]Issue-2061
         5. [8]ISSUE-2062
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <trackbot> Date: 07 October 2008

   <scribe> Scribe: Chris

   <ed> [10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11

     [10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/11

   <scribe> Scribenick: ChrisL

Last Call Comments

   ED: Some of these may be covered by other actions

   ISSEU-2056?

   ISSUE-2056?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2056 -- Consider referring to Instead of linking to
   CSS2.1 instead of CSS2 -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2056

     [11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2056

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056 explaining
   projected Rec date of CSS 2.1 [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2273 - Respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056
   explaining projected Rec date of CSS 2.1 [on Chris Lilley - due
   2008-10-14].

   Close ISSUE-2056

   Trackbot, Close ISSUE-2056

   <trackbot> Sorry, ChrisL, I don't understand 'Trackbot, Close
   ISSUE-2056'. Please refer to
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

   CL: How is the DoC document being made?

   DS: The issues will be imported into the LC tracker, but this
   tracker is better for actions etc

Issue 2055

   Issue-2055?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2055 -- Define 'evt'/'event' relationship more
   formally -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2055

     [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2055

   ED: Some discussion from Cameron

   ACTION Erik follow up with Cameron and commentor on ISSUE-2055

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2274 - Follow up with Cameron and
   commentor on ISSUE-2055 [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-10-14].

Issue 2057

   Issue-2057?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2057 -- text-align incompatible with CSS -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2057

     [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2057

   ED: There is an action pending review

   CL: If a property has different v alue sets in different
   specifications (eg in CSS1 and CSS2) then clearly there are
   unsupported values

   DS: UA can be conforming if it does these values, but content is not
   conforming vcontent if it has those values. But what the UA did
   would be unspecified

   CL: aybe we could finesses 'unsupported' to allow for supersets in
   general
   ... but need to be careful to constrain superset values, not allow
   anything

   ED: No official reply on list to last message

   DS: So both Chris and I are saying such content would not conform to
   the specification
   ... spec was changed to say "not supported by the user agent" so
   puts it on UA not spec.

   CL: So if it is supported then it does not have to be ignored
   ... I didn't suggest exact wording, but to ask first if that would
   satisfy

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2275 - Discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai
   [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

   DS; Second part is solved by reintroduction of direction etc

   DS: Third part was clarified by 'not in Tiny'

   CL: So no response to dougs eail of 18 Sept?

   DS: She contacted me on IRC. Asked that she follow up in email, for
   tracking. Not done so yet
   ... on IRC she was not satisfied
   ... on the first issue. Others were not mentioned

   CL; What did she say exactly?

   DS: Will look in IRC logs

   Topic; ISSUE-2058

   ISSUE-2058?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2058 -- Lack of BIDI 'direction' -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2058

     [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2058

   ED; Fantasai says direction needs unicode-bidi as well, which we
   added

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058 saying
   we added direction, unicode-bidi and a test [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action03]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2276 - Respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058
   saying we added direction, unicode-bidi and a test [on Chris Lilley
   - due 2008-10-14].

   <ed>
   [19]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/text-align-202-t.sv
   g

     [19] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/test/svg/text-align-202-t.svg

   ED; Shoudl the other alignment test have unicode-bidi?

   CL: Its not ipening an embedding context

   CL; Should not have been added in that case, since its a block level
   and does not set a new embedding level

   scribe: why does opera fail here?

   ED; Because we are not treating start as right, here. In 1.1 the
   text was wrong

   CL: We fixed that in an erratum

   ED: Not updated to impleent that erratum yet

   CL; Should actually remove direction from text-align-202

   ED: Check there is no leading witespace, then remove it

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to remove direction from text-align-202 as it
   uses the initial value and does nothing n this test [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action04]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2277 - Remove direction from
   text-align-202 as it uses the initial value and does nothing n this
   test [on Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

Issue-2061

   Issue-2061?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2061 -- play, stop, pause, resume on video -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2061

     [21] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2061

   CL: So he is asking for editorial clarifications and more
   linkingbetween the two interfaces

   DS: Wants it to be clearer. no functional changes. Example would be
   good. Explain how to start, stop, pause, resue. Simple

   ED: Informative note

   DS: So we should say yes, we will link these two interfaces and
   explain them 2 outcomes: one we merge the interfaces, the other that
   we cross reference between them.

   CL; Good to have pointed out that SVG does what SMIL does, while
   HTML5 does the same thing in a different way

   DS: HTML% interface for this all in one place. It does some things
   we dont. We do some things they dont/ SMIL interface structure is
   confusing. PLH was confused and he is an experienced DOM author

   ED: In SVG 1.1 you can pause and unpause on SVG root element and its
   named differently. PauseAnimations vs PauseElement

   DS; Its a timeline

   scribe: need to add the explanation to the spec

   CL; Explanation needs to use the term TimeContainer

   CL: Would existing code change if it moved interfaces?

   DS: probably

   ED: ElemtTimeControl is available on the SVG root element as well

   DS; The interfaces can't be unified because what would play do on
   the svg root element. 'play' does not have meaning there

   CL: Would play mean 'restart'?

   DS; Not really

   ED: beginElement is already there as well as pause

   DS; So if we do the basic fix of linking between the interfaces

   scribe: then revisit in the larger picture

   CL; Sugest an excampl and rtext saying 'to pause a video do this ...
   to start a video when a button is pressed do like this example"

   <scribe> ACTION: Doug to clarify the spec - link SVGTimedElement and
   SMIL::ElenentTimeControl and checkthat PLH is satisfied [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action05]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2278 - Clarify the spec - link
   SVGTimedElement and SMIL::ElementTimeControl and checkthat PLH is
   satisfied [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-14].

ISSUE-2062

   ISSUE-2062?

   <trackbot> ISSUE-2062 -- foreignObject content and referenced
   resource -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [23]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062

     [23] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2062

   ED: xlink:href reference restrictions are not listed

   CL: So any reference restrictions should be mentioned. Simplest to
   restrict to a different doc, not the same one.
   ... Fragments or not?

   ED: Like linking to an ID?

   DS; Maybe covered in CDF

   CL: Useful to display the whole document and allow moving to a given
   point, so we dont want to dissalow fragments

   ED: Agreed, allow fragments

   <ed>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestricti
   ons

     [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestrictions

   CL: Looking at
   [25]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestricti
   ons

     [25] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/linking.html#ReferenceRestrictions

   it has five things labelled A... E

   A is not allowed. B is allowed. C we justsaid was not allowed

   scribe: C is covered by th e animation element

   D is allowed

   E is allowed too

   foreignObject is in that table and says yes everywhere

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to update table of ref restrictions in
   linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say
   [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action06]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2279 - Update table of ref restrictions in
   linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say [on
   Chris Lilley - due 2008-10-14].

   he says we don't mention displaying the contents

   We say "The rendered content of a foreignObject must be treated as
   atomic from the point of view of SVG compositing and transformation,
   as if it was a single replaced element."

   we dont say it should be rendered but we say what to do with the
   rendered result

   Suggest "If the foreign format is supported by the UA and can be
   rendered, then it shoudl be rendered into the viewport defined by
   the element" before the sentence just quoted

   CL; Suggest moving the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1

   ED: Yes

   <scribe> ACTION: Chris to move the last three paras of 19.2 into
   19.2.1 (the ones that discuss foreignObject) [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action07]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2280 - Move the last three paras of 19.2
   into 19.2.1 (the ones that discuss foreignObject) [on Chris Lilley -
   due 2008-10-14].

   ED: Need to continue on this issue next time

   DS; ooks like we need an extra or longe rtelcon

   scribe: we need resolutions and agreement quickly

   (brief discussion of ISSUE-2076)

   DS: Extra-long telcon toorrow?

   ED: Or shared time on IRC

   DS: More time, and also email discussion
   ... Extra telcons better next week

   DS will send email to the list asking about extra telcons

   <scribe> ACTION: Doug to explain that aria- or aria: would be in
   later specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions [recorded
   in [28]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-2281 - Explain that aria- or aria: would
   be in later specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions [on
   Doug Schepers - due 2008-10-14].

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Chris discuss ISSUE-2057 with Fantasai [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris respond to commentor on ISSUE-2056 explaining
   projected Rec date of CSS 2.1 [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to move the last three paras of 19.2 into 19.2.1
   (the ones that discuss foreignObject) [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action07]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to remove direction from text-align-202 as it
   uses the initial value and does nothing n this test [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to respond to Fantasia on ISSUE-2058 saying we
   added direction, unicode-bidi and a test [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chris to update table of ref restrictions in
   linking.thml to make foreignObject do what these minutes say
   [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: Doug to clarify the spec - link SVGTimedElement and
   SMIL::ElenentTimeControl and checkthat PLH is satisfied [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: Doug to explain that aria- or aria: would be in later
   specs with real examples, based on tpac discussions [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2008/10/07-svg-minutes.html#action08]

   [End of minutes]
     _____________________________________

-- 
 Chris Lilley                    mailto:chris@w3.org
 Technical Director, Interaction Domain
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Tuesday, 7 October 2008 12:59:48 GMT

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