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Minutes SVG Telcon, May 6 2008

From: Andreas Neumann <a.neumann@carto.net>
Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 14:07:15 +0200
Message-ID: <482049F3.4050700@carto.net>
To: public-svg-wg@w3.org

Please find the minutes of the Tuesday, May 6 2008 telcon at 
http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html or as text below:



    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference
                               06 May 2008

    [2]Agenda

       [2] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0012.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Andreas_Neumann, aemmons, ed, ChrisL, anthony, shepazu

    Regrets
    Chair
           Erik

    Scribe
           Andreas Neumann

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]ISSUE-2001 - (font-face-dtd): Prose describing <font>
             content model does not match DTD [SVG Full 1.1]
          2. [6]Japanese Layout Task Force meeting
          3. [7]XHTML role review
          4. [8]Testsuite issues / actions
          5. [9]substring length errata
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



    <trackbot-ng> Date: 06 May 2008

    <ChrisL> trackbot-ng, status

    <ChrisL> hi

    <scribe> Scribe: Andreas Neumann

    <scribe> ScribeNick: aneumann

ISSUE-2001 - (font-face-dtd): Prose describing <font> content model
does not match DTD [SVG Full 1.1]

    ED: we discussed it in a previous telcon but did not have a quorum
    ... in the SVG 1.1 font chapter it says that the font-face element
    can't appear everywhere where the font element can appear

    <ed>
    [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/000
    5.html

      [11] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0005.html

    <ed> [12]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#id5195633

      [12] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/fonts.html#id5195633

    <ChrisL> "When used to describe the characteristics of an SVG font
    contained within the same document, it is recommended that the
    'font-face' element be a child of the 'font' element it is
    describing so that the 'font' element can be self-contained and
    fully-described."

    <ChrisL> implying it need no always be a child of the font element

    CL: proposal is to allow it everywhere where font is allowed?

    ED: yes font and font-face should be usable at the same places

    <ChrisL> Ok that brings it into line with 1.2T as well. In favour

    <ChrisL> add the font-face element to Font.class

    CL: any issues with recursitivity?

    ED: no, can't be nested

    <ChrisL> this change in section 20.9.1 Font Content Set and the DTD
    itself

    RESOLUTION: add the font-face element to Font.class

    <ChrisL> the DTD is correct already?

    <scribe> ACTION: ED to errata the font section and allow font-face
    everywhere where font is allowed [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action01]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2007 - Errata the font section and
    allow font-face everywhere where font is allowed [on Erik Dahlström
    - due 2008-05-13].

Japanese Layout Task Force meeting

    ED: anyone interested in attending the meeting?

    CL: probably, yes
    ... will reply to Felix
    ... the meeting seems to be postponed
    ... but not the TPAC one

    <ChrisL> never mind, its the one in April that was postponed, not
    the TPAC one

XHTML role review

    ED:

    a few reviews were sent to the public list, from DOH and me

    any further review comments should be sent this week

    ED: any additional comments?

    <ed>
    [14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/000
    7.html

      [14] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0007.html

    ED: my short review

    <ed>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0058.h
    tml

      [15] 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0058.html

    CL: I'd say we look forward to working with you on this issue

    <ChrisL> Add 'we look forward toworking with WAI PF to define roles
    suitable for common types of graphis such as maps, charts, etc'

    CL: you are asking for the roles to be informative and not normative

    ED: its not a complete list

    CL: maybe better state it in your reasoning

    <ChrisL> say why in the comment, then

    CL: I think DOH is only referering to our text element

    <ChrisL> first para, change "the elements

    <ChrisL> in SVG" to "the text elements

    <ChrisL> in SVG

    CL: he is correct about text, but other elements do have semantics

    <ChrisL> Agree with his point in general

    <shepazu> it would also be good for text that doesn't use paragraphs
    or headings, like poetry, lyrics, etc.

    <ChrisL> Additional comment; Its is a pity that no RelaxNG
    implementation is provided. Please consider adding one.

    CL: they only have DTD and W3C XML Schema

    <scribe> ACTION: ED to send in comments about XHTML role attribute
    [recorded in
    [16]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2008 - Send in comments about XHTML
    role attribute [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-05-13].

Testsuite issues / actions

    ED: AE added a lot of new test cases

    CL: reviewing before the F2F would be good

    <aemmons> [17]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestReview

      [17] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/wiki/TestReview

    AE: tests are quite different - testing the API
    ... code layout will need reworking

    CL: pretty print in Oxygen can help

    <ChrisL> In oxygen - document xml document, format/indent

    CL: already reviewed tests should be marked as done

    AG: we should also have a comment column

    ED: will review SVGMatrix and SVGLocatable

    <ChrisL> i will do the color one

    <ChrisL> yes

    AE: maybe we should involve other implementors like Ikivo more

    CL: Doug as staff contact could deal with it - Ikivo should have a
    representative again

    DS: already asked a couple times. Andy seems to be very busy
    ... they should also send in the revision of MAE

    AE: the goal would be to review them before the F2F

    <scribe> ACTION: AG to move Test review allocation table to the new
    wiki and add comment and reviewed column [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2009 - Move Test review allocation
    table to the new wiki and add comment and reviewed column [on
    Anthony Grasso - due 2008-05-13].

substring length errata

    <ed> [19]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/335

      [19] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/track/issues/335

    it affects the ACID3 test

    ED: its not clear for ligatures or

    <ed> surrogate pairs

    ED: other TEXT DOM methods specify explicitly what happens in this
    case
    ... my proposal is to add a similar sentence to
    SVGTextContentElement.getSubStringLength definition

    <ed>
    [20]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#InterfaceSVGTextContentElem
    ent

      [20] 
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#InterfaceSVGTextContentElement

    CL: you should never be able to break in the middle of a surrogate
    pair
    ... question is in which direction you move

    <ChrisL> a selection that points into half of a surrogate pair
    should expand to include the whole character

    ED: second part of the issue is about exceptions if you have a
    length value that goes beyond the number of characters (taking into
    account the start offset)
    ... I don't see the point of the exception

    <ed> from selectSubString:

    <ed> DOMException INDEX_SIZE_ERR: Raised if the charnum is negative
    or if charnum is greater than or equal to the number of characters
    at this node.

    <ed> in unsigned long nchars The number of characters in the
    substring. If nchars specifies more characters than are available,
    then the substring will consist of all characters starting with
    charnum until the end of the list of characters.

    the exception is fine if you pass a negative value, but other than
    that we should probably align the the selectSubString way

    <ed> <text>abc</text>

    <ed> getSubStringLength(0,5)

    <ChrisL> text on a path with abcdefghijk

    <ChrisL> and the path can display abc

    <ChrisL> you ask for substroing len of abcde

    CL: what should happen with the invisible characters that can't be
    rendered along the path

    <ChrisL> de are not displayed

    ED: not clear from the description of the method

    CL: invisible characters don't contribute to the rendered extent

    ED: it would affect all of the text methods

    CL: sounds like a useful clarification
    ... it affects all the text methods that depend on the rendering
    rather than the original characters

    ED: will close the original action and we'll open a new one
    ... still have to mail Ian Hickson

    <scribe> ACTION: ED to clarify/errata for text DOM methods in SVG
    1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the
    computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about
    unseparable characters [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-2010 - Clarify/errata for text DOM
    methods in SVG 1.1, specify that unrendered characters don't
    contribute to the computation; remove exceptions of
    getSubStringLength; clarify about unseparable characters [on Erik
    Dahlström - due 2008-05-13].

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: AG to move Test review allocation table to the new
    wiki and add comment and reviewed column [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: ED to clarify/errata for text DOM methods in SVG 1.1,
    specify that unrendered characters don't contribute to the
    computation; remove exceptions of getSubStringLength; clarify about
    unseparable characters [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: ED to errata the font section and allow font-face
    everywhere where font is allowed [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: ED to send in comments about XHTML role attribute
    [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html#action02]

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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     $Date: 2008/05/06 12:00:52 $
      _________________________________________________________

      [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

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Agenda: [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJu
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Found Date: 06 May 2008
Guessing minutes URL: [30]http://www.w3.org/2008/05/06-svg-minutes.html
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-- 

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Email: a.neumann@carto.net

Web: http://www.carto.net/neumann/
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