Re: R: Minutes of first official WG meeting: August 26th

Goix Laurent Walter wrote:
>
> My apologies for not joining but i overlooked my calendar and thought 
> it was IG at 6pm CET, and nobody joined so I disconnected.
>
> It is not clear to me from the minutes:
> 1- at what time is finally the weekly *WG* call? my calendar says 6pm 
> CET but the minutes seem to suggest than it will be 7pm cet from next 
> week's on: will someone update the invitation?


The meeting was at 6PM BST, so I would assume 7PM CET to be accurate.

>
> 2- where should discussion now happen for AS2.0? I understood that 
> existing github issues will continue be discussed there until closure, 
> but I am not sure about the conclusion related to *new issues*.


My understanding is that issues specifically with the AS2 spec will be 
managed through GitHub, while the tracker will be used more for WG 
procedure (if a bug is present on both the GitHub tracker and WG 
tracker, e.g. as a point of discussion for the next meeting, I'd assume 
that the GitHub comments would be used)

>
> Thanks, hope to join next time
> walter
>
>>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: Harry Halpin [mailto:hhalpin@w3.org]
>> Inviato: martedì 26 agosto 2014 11.05
>> A: public-socialweb@w3.org
>> Oggetto: Minutes of first official WG meeting: August 26th
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-social-minutes.html
>>
>> * Mostly a great intro to process by Arnaud
>> * Discussion over URL issue in ActivityStreams 2.0
>> * Proposal approved to publish AS2 as a FPWD before TPAC
>> * Scoping with Social IG the use-cases
>>
>> cheers,
>> harry
>>
>> - ---
>>
>> Social Web Working Group Teleconference
>>
>> 26 Aug 2014
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>> Present
>> Sandro, aaronpk, +1.559.707.aaaa, Hhalpin, Arnaud,
>> tantek, +44.783.406.aabb, deiu, rhiaro, jtauber,
>> oshepherd, elf-pavlik, tommorris, bblfish, MattMarum,
>> ShaneHudson, jasnell, bret, wilkie
>>
>> Regrets
>> Chair
>> Arnaud
>>
>> Scribe
>> rhiaro
>>
>> Contents
>>
>> * [2]Topics
>> 1. [3]ActivityStreams 2.0
>> 2. [4]Use cases and requirements
>> * [5]Summary of Action Items
>> __________________________________________________________
>>
>> <jasnell-github> [13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams] 15jasnell
>> pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02[6]http://git.io/nU1XXg
>>
>> [6] http://git.io/nU1XXg
>>
>> <jasnell-github> 13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/06master
>> 147d716a3 15James M Snell: editorial nits
>>
>> <jasnell-github> [13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams] 15jasnell
>> pushed 1 new commit to 06gh-pages: 02[7]http://git.io/AGHmpw
>>
>> [7] http://git.io/AGHmpw
>>
>> <jasnell-github> 13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/06gh-pages
>> 14cc8bbfe 15James M Snell: editorial nits
>>
>> <aaronpk> where is Zakim?
>>
>> <harry> trackbot this is social
>>
>> <trackbot> Sorry, harry, I don't understand 'trackbot this is
>> social'. Please refer to
>> <[8]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
>>
>> [8] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
>>
>> <Arnaud> no worries, Zakim will come
>>
>> <wilkie> hi
>>
>> <harry> trackbot, start meeting
>>
>> <trackbot> Date: 26 August 2014
>>
>> <Arnaud> there you go
>>
>> <oshepherd> SOCIG?
>>
>> I'm on the top of the list, can scribe
>>
>> <aaronpk> wow look at all the robots go
>>
>> <Arnaud> harry, that's first on the agenda
>>
>> <Arnaud> hmm, I wonder whether this is going to mean we won't
>> get the right tracker associated with the call
>>
>> <Arnaud> the call hasn't started yet :)
>>
>> <Loqi> sandro: tantek left you a message on 8/24 at 3:38pm:
>> next time you're around, come on over to #indiewebcamp on
>> Freenode and let's chat IndieWebCamp Cambridge/MIT venue
>> details with caseorganic!
>>
>> <Arnaud> yeah, we got the calls mixed up with IG:
>> [9]https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_6
>> 460
>>
>> [9] https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_6460
>>
>> <jasnell> on the phone but dropping off irc
>>
>> <oshepherd> Hmm, Zakim and me are disagreeing
>>
>> <oshepherd> OK, time to use my Skype world minutes I guess
>>
>> <cmhobbs> what time is the call? isn't it a little early?
>>
>> <Tsyesika> uh another call?
>>
>> <Tsyesika> this isn't the usual time?
>>
>> <harry> Note that due to complaints, we now have the call at
>> 7:00 CET for Europeans. Otherwise it was 10:00 PM CET for
>> Europeans
>>
>> <Shane> Zakin, ??P13 is Shane
>>
>> <tantek> Tsyesika see /social#Telecon
>>
>> Zakim ??P8 is me
>>
>> <harry> I'd just hold a sec, people are still dialing in
>>
>> <oshepherd> Zakim: + +44.783.406.aabb is me
>>
>> <sandro> james_snell: I'm on the call, but not IRC
>>
>> <caseorganic> Hello - I'm on the call
>>
>> <oshepherd> Zakim: +44.783.406.aabb is me
>>
>> <harry> Zakim unmute aaaa
>>
>> <jtauber> thanks
>>
>> <oshepherd> (finally!)
>>
>> <harry> scribe: rhiaro
>>
>> <nicolagreco> how can I get into the call?
>>
>> <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik
>>
>> <Shane> I'm on the call but only able to half pay attention
>> today
>>
>> <bblfish> IPCaller is me
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> I don't see my name on the list
>>
>> <tantek> scribenick rhiaro
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> I've got two IRC clients running, sorry. Both are
>> me :)
>>
>> <tantek> scribe: rhiaro
>>
>> <deiu> [10]https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people has a list of
>> nicks and names (please add yourself)
>>
>> [10] https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
>>
>> Arnaud: Welcome everyone
>>
>> <harry> If anyone has questions about Invited Expert status,
>> please ping me. It's possible we have missed a few
>> applications, there was a bug in the set-up of the WG
>>
>> Arnaud: This is the first formal call. Non-members should join
>> the WG
>>
>> <harry> The only person I have in my queue is Markus from
>> Hydra.
>>
>> Arnaud: Next telecon 2nd Sept
>> ... Time on the doodle poll is Boston time
>> ... Sticking with Boston time through daylight savings
>>
>> <harry> Re IE status caseorganic, we'll give you a 6 month IE
>> is as standard for a possible W3C member.
>>
>> <tantek> harry, I vouch for caseorganic
>>
>> Arnaud: Tracking of actions and issues with the tracker
>> ... We could use github issue tracker? Up to WG
>>
>> <sandro> Is there a simple way to view all the people's
>> pictures linked from [11]https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people ?
>>
>> [11] https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
>>
>> Arnaud: advises to use W3C tracker only
>>
>> <aaronpk> sandro: the w3c mediawiki blocks hotlinked images, so
>> not unless that setting is changed
>>
>> Arnaud: Shouldn't split attention over too many different tools
>>
>> <tantek> I think if a spec author wants to use github for their
>> spec, and github issues for their spec issues, that should be
>> ok.
>>
>> Arnaud: tracker allows creating and tracking states of issues;
>> anyone can raise an issue
>>
>> <tantek> However I'm ok with "Tracker" being the default for
>> group-level administrivia etc. issues
>>
>> <tommorris> tracker++
>>
>> <Loqi> tracker has 1 karma
>>
>> Arnaud: WG keeps an eye on raised issues, but isn't committed
>> to dealing with them. Decide if they're important to tackle.
>>
>> <harry> For the beginning of a WG I think tracker is fine for
>> WG-level issues
>>
>> <harry> for specs, folks tend to use github or bugzilla, but we
>> don't have specs yet
>>
>> Arnaud: Advantage of using the tracker is the trackbot
>>
>> <sandro> trackbot, help
>>
>> <trackbot> Please see
>> <[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
>>
>> [12] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
>>
>> Arnaud: trackbot automatically assigns actions, and close
>> issues etc
>>
>> tantek: specs and spec-specific issues should be on github,
>> easier for spec editor
>> ... spec editing is a lot of work
>>
>> <jasnell>
>> [13]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
>>
>> [13] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
>>
>> <tantek> what sandro said exactly
>>
>> sandro: both trackers in parallel
>>
>> tommorris: github allows closing of issues to issues
>> themselves, to help with working out how spec evolved
>>
>> Arnaud: So smaller issues can be handled with github, major
>> issues with w3c tracker as it's well integrated with other
>> tools
>>
>> <tantek> to be clear, I myself do not use github for spec
>> editing (I prefer wiki), but I know others do (e.g. jasnell )
>> and I have seen github spec editors use github issues quite
>> efficiently and nicely
>>
>> <tommorris> and if one uses the wiki, using the wiki for issues
>> is sensible.
>>
>> <harry> I have an open action re the relationship between OWF
>> CLAs and W3C RFF with Ian and Wendy Seltzer
>>
>> <jasnell> Will be right back
>>
>> jasnell had action to find out who contributed to AS 2.0 Spec.
>> It's on the wiki
>>
>> <tantek> rhiaro - that was tantek
>>
>> <Arnaud> zakim james is jasnell
>>
>> <tantek> [14]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#History
>>
>> [14] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#History
>>
>> jasnell: All material contributions made by people already in
>> WG, so should be covered
>> ... The one person listed as needing to fill out the form
>> wasn't correct after all
>> ... If any more issues come up, will investigate
>>
>> <harry> Just quick note - it *likely* clears up the IPR issue,
>> but I want a quick check from Wendy.
>>
>> Arnaud: Close previously discussed action re: AS2.0 spec
>> ... Action for all - associate yourself with ircpeople page
>>
>> <tantek> see
>> [15]http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today
>>
>> [15] http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/today
>>
>> Arnaud: how long to keep that open?
>>
>> tantek: We can close that now everyone has been reminded
>> ... Most people have done it
>>
>> <bret> joining the call :)
>>
>> Arnaud: Action to send out invite for new meetings closed
>>
>> <bblfish> where does one put the icons?
>>
>> ActivityStreams 2.0
>>
>> Arnaud: jasnell has put the spec on github
>>
>> <harry> +1 first public WD by TPAC
>>
>> Arnaud: First public working draft by TPAC
>>
>> <oshepherd> +1
>>
>> <tommorris> bblfish: just a pointer to a JPG or PNG on the web
>>
>> <tantek> +1 to first public WD by TPAC
>>
>> <jtauber> +1
>>
>> <bblfish> but where?
>>
>> <MattMarum> +1
>>
>> <oshepherd> At least for the AS2 core doc, anyhow
>>
>> <aaronpk> bblfish: usually people link to an image that's on
>> their own site
>>
>> <harry> The spec is here in HTML:
>> [16]http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activ
>> itystreams2.html
>>
>> [16]
>> http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html
>>
>> <bblfish> but where do I put the link?
>>
>> Arnaud: For those not familiar with w3c process, first step is
>> to publish a public working draft of a deliverable. Can be
>> changed.
>>
>> <harry> Any questions?
>>
>> <deiu> Maybe make it a proposal?
>>
>> <aaronpk> bblfish: copy a line from this page and change the
>> details to your own [17]https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
>>
>> [17] https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC-people
>>
>> <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Aim to publish ActivityStreams 2.0 FPWD by
>> TPAC
>>
>> <sandro> +1 seems reasonable to me, as a goal!
>>
>> <deiu> +1
>>
>> <jasnell> +1
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> +1
>>
>> <oshepherd> +1
>>
>> <MattMarum> +1
>>
>> <harry> +1
>>
>> <jtauber> +1
>>
>> +1
>>
>> <caseorganic> +1
>>
>> <aaronpk> +1
>>
>> <tommorris> +1
>>
>> <tommorris> yep, "-1 trolling" doesn't count.
>>
>> <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Aim to publish ActivityStreams 2.0 FPWD by
>> TPAC
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> Is the conference code still 2625? I got thrown
>> off the call and it won't let me back in
>>
>> Arnaud: Proposal to split spec into core parts and vocabularies
>>
>> jasnell: Split documents on github, can roll back
>> ... In order to simplify core document. Feedback was it's too
>> complex with too many optional parts
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> That's better, thanks
>>
>> jasnell: Optional parts are in vocabs part
>>
>> <jasnell-github> [13w3c-socialwg-activitystreams] 15tommorris
>> opened pull request #9: fixing tantek's name
>> (06master...06patch-1) 02[18]http://git.io/HCFAiw
>>
>> [18] http://git.io/HCFAiw
>>
>> <tantek> is it possible to implement one without the other?
>>
>> jasnell: Take a look at the repo now and comment from there
>> ... Can implement basic AS functionality from core document
>> ... Vocab document provides field names, but you don't *have*
>> to use them
>>
>> <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Split document into two documents: core and
>> vocab
>>
>> <jasnell> +1
>>
>> <oshepherd> +1
>>
>> <MattMarum> +1
>>
>> <jtauber> +1
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> +1
>>
>> <sandro> +0 sounds fine, but I haven't really thought about it
>>
>> +0 I don't know..
>>
>> <deiu> +1
>>
>> <tommorris> +0 agree with sandro
>>
>> <harry> +1
>>
>> <aaronpk> +0 same
>>
>> <tantek> +1 per deferring to editor's discretion at assessing
>> community consensus on this
>>
>> <bblfish> ok updated my picture
>>
>> Arnaud: If at some point someone thinks this doesn't make
>> sense, we can undo it
>>
>> <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Split document into two documents: core and
>> vocab
>>
>> Arnaud: We can reconsider things. (But not just because you
>> didn't get the result you want)
>> ... Discussion about url / id / self
>>
>> <Arnaud>
>> [19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2014Au
>> g/0042.html
>>
>> [19]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2014Aug/0042.html
>>
>> jasnell: In AS 1.0, no formal notion of links. Media links. url
>> property and other ways of linking to other content, but no
>> defined model. Led to interop conflicts in different
>> implementations. Some poeple used media links, iris, urls,
>> inconsistently
>> ... In 2.0 link values have been formalised to add consistency
>> ... Aligning AS to link relations model
>>
>> <tommorris> RFC 5988 - [20]http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
>>
>> [20] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
>>
>> jasnell: Creates redundancy in some field definitions; self,
>> canonical, url
>> ... url had a poorly defined definition in AS 1. Goal is
>> simplification.
>> ... and consistency.
>>
>> <oshepherd> I'll note that the problem with url in 1.0 is that
>> it reuses the "url" name for different things in different
>> places, sometimes in conflicting ways
>>
>> jasnell: Current version of the spec on github has current
>> thoughts
>>
>> <aaronpk> link for reference:
>> [21]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
>>
>> [21] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams
>>
>> jasnell: Take a look at the spec, section on link resolution,
>> and offer feedback.
>>
>> <tantek> isn't this issue already in github issues?
>>
>> <tommorris> issue is at
>> [22]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
>> ues/5
>>
>> [22] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5
>>
>> <tantek> right, we already have a permalink for this issue,
>> with existing discussion and history
>>
>> <sandro> issue: what should we do about
>> [23]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
>> ues/5
>>
>> [23] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5
>>
>> <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - What should we do about
>> [24]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
>> ues/5. Please complete additional details at
>> <[25]http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/1/edit>.
>>
>> [24]
>> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5.
>> [25] http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/1/edit%3E.
>>
>> <tantek> I am against forking this issue to tracker
>>
>> <tantek> I propose any more commentary on it to the *existing*
>> issue
>>
>> <tantek> rather than forking the discussion to w3c
>>
>> tantek: Already an open issue on github with existing
>> discussion
>>
>> <aaronpk> agree with tantek
>>
>> <harry> I'd keep it in github if possible - duplication leads
>> to errors.
>>
>> <harry> A pointer for tracker to the github error is fine as
>> long as it includes the URI:
>> [26]https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/iss
>> ues/5
>>
>> [26] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5
>>
>> <ShaneHudson> I agree with tantek, but I would have an issue on
>> the tracker that points towards the existing Github issue
>>
>> <harry> Which is what we have, so I guess we're OK :)
>>
>> <sandro> close issue-1
>>
>> <trackbot> Closed issue-1.
>>
>> <sandro> (oops)
>>
>> <aaronpk> can we just point to the issue on the wiki so people
>> can find it from this group?
>>
>> <tommorris> on the issue there, I'd recommend that interested
>> party post comments on the Github tracker
>>
>> jasnell: if you plan on submitting pull requests to the github
>> repo, please list your github id on the wiki page
>> ... There's a github page on the wiki
>> ... So pull requests can be verified.
>>
>> <aaronpk> found the github page on the wiki:
>> [27]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Github
>>
>> [27] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Github
>>
>> bblfish: This type of issue - how to refer to something -
>> there's a whole infrastructure to use already, with work on LDP
>> and JSON-LD. So the solution could/should fit in nicely with
>> everything else
>> ... Use follow your nose. Things in JSON-LD and RDF.
>>
>> <tommorris> LDP for those who do't know is Linked Data Platform
>>
>> Arnaud: In general, if people want to make suggestions on how
>> to change the spec, write it down. Email or put it on the wiki,
>> as a proposal for discussion on a call.
>>
>> <bblfish> [28]https://www.w3.org/wiki/FollowYourNose
>>
>> [28] https://www.w3.org/wiki/FollowYourNose
>>
>> <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to add to the discussion about
>> working with existing tools and implementations
>>
>> <bblfish> [29]http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
>>
>> [29] http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
>>
>> tantek: Agrees with bblfish about looking at existing
>> implementations and tools. There's a broad variety. Incluidng
>> indiewebcamp, where many people are publishing permalinks,
>> using a url field
>> ... draw from other sources of work, for interoperatbility.
>> ... but not insisting on compatibility with anything in
>> particular, as there are a *lot* of things.
>>
>> Use cases and requirements
>>
>> <bblfish> yes, but that sounds like a way to make basic issues
>> a constant point of discussion
>>
>> <jasnell> Suggestion: use wiki to document change proposals and
>> submit pull requests with specific spec changes. Every pull
>> request that is not editorial would be raised as an issue
>>
>> Arnaud: the IG is chartered to do exploration work and figure
>> out use cases and requirements for social web in general.
>>
>> <tantek> e.g. [30]http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry which
>> uses [31]http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card for author info
>> and both of which (h-entry and h-card) use a "url" field to
>> indicate permalinks and other profiles/versions.
>>
>> [30] http://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry
>> [31] http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card
>>
>> Arnaud: WG has to develop specs to address use cases and
>> requirements. WG scope is smaller than what the IG tackles. How
>> will we handle this?
>> ... Currently one page under the WG on the wiki. Who is this
>> really owned by? IG refer to it from their wiki page.
>> ... Have a free-for-all phase where people add their own use
>> cases. Then go through an approval phase to choose what to
>> tackle.
>>
>> <tantek> we also have a lot of these documented and referenced
>> in our charter:
>> [32]http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html
>>
>> [32] http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html
>>
>> <harry> I'm not sure how that works out in W3C ACL space
>>
>> <harry> but we can make a wiki anyone with a W3C account can
>> edit
>>
>> <harry> so that should not be a huge problem if people want the
>> use-cases in that shared space.
>>
>> <tantek> e.g.
>> [33]http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html#iwc
>>
>> [33] http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html#iwc
>>
>> jasnell: From IG call last week; focus was to organise into
>> task groups. One focused on use cases; architecture;
>> vocabulary; lisaon with other groups, including this WG
>> ... jasnell is liason role volunteer
>> ... Clarity on timelines on next call.
>>
>> Arnaud: The IG don't have time constraints. They can come up
>> with any use cases and write them down. WG can't tackle all use
>> cases.
>>
>> tommorris: Prioritise use cases that are actually used on the
>> web. Seems possible to work around real use cases rather than
>> hypothetical ones.
>>
>> <tantek> +1 tommorris: use-cases actively *in use* on the web
>> should be prioritized
>>
>> +1 prioritising in use
>>
>> <jasnell> Question: can deciding on specific use cases to
>> address be out on the agenda for the tpac meeting?
>>
>> <jasnell> Gives time between now and then to document and
>> discuss
>>
>> <tantek> social web - assumes you want to be *social*, and do
>> so *on the web* :)
>>
>> bblfish: What is the group trying to achieve? Framework for
>> being able to discuss distributed relations between people.
>> Decentralised communication/control. These are basic
>> requirements.
>> ... so social networks are a basic requirement
>>
>> <tommorris> rhiaro: tantek
>>
>> tantek: We have the charter. We don't need to reason from the
>> name of the group. Focus on the charter.
>>
>> <bblfish> User control of personal data: Some users would like
>> to have autonomous control over their own social data, and
>> share their data selectively across various systems. For an
>> example (based on the IndieWeb initiative), a user could host
>> their own blog and use federated status updates to both push
>> and pull their social information across a number of different
>> social networking sites.
>>
>> tantek: Decide what we're working on based on items in the
>> charter.
>>
>> <bblfish> from the chater
>>
>> Arnaud: We can continue this discussion next week
>>
>> <tantek> thanks bblfish - yes, referencing the charter is my
>> request rather than use of the name of the wg
>>
>> Arnaud: Important to have use cases as background
>>
>> <hhalpin> trackbot, meeting adjourned
>>
>> <trackbot> Sorry, hhalpin, I don't understand 'trackbot,
>> meeting adjourned'. Please refer to
>> <[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
>>
>> [34] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc%3E
>>
>> <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
>>
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Received on Tuesday, 26 August 2014 19:46:01 UTC