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Re: Semantic Web Usability BOF in Busan

From: Abraham Bernstein <bernstein@ifi.uzh.ch>
Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2007 03:21:45 +0100
Message-ID: <47366739.7060503@ifi.uzh.ch>
To: Lloyd Rutledge <Lloyd.Rutledge@cwi.nl>
Cc: Max Wilson <mlw05r@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, "<editor@content-wire.com>" <editor@content-wire.com>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, paola.dimaio@gmail.com, emmanuelle@sidar.org, "T.Heath" <T.Heath@open.ac.uk>, SW-forum Web <semantic-web@w3.org>, public-semweb-ui@w3.org

There is also a User Interaction session at the main conference...

Best

Avi

Lloyd Rutledge wrote:
>
> Another gathering point for this discussion could be the at or aronnd the
> tutorial tomorrow (Sunday) on "User Centered Design for the Semantic Web"
> <http://www.dfki.de/~jameson/iswc07-tutorial/>.
>
> -Lloyd
>
> Max Wilson wrote:
>> This swuiwiki.webscience.org, which is a great place to output any
>> user based BOF discussion at ISWC this year, has a managed editor
>> list but is free to view by anyone. Contact details for getting an
>> editor account are on the front page. Roberto, and now Paola, along
>> with many some now have accounts.
>>
>> Max Wilson
>>
>> On 10 Nov 2007, at 09:51, <editor@content-wire.com
>> <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>> <editor@content-wire.com
>> <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ivan and all
>>> me too leaving soon and still working on my reservations,
>>> shutingdown in a few minutes...
>>>
>>> Preliminary list of issues on the fly:
>>>
>>> 1. New semantic web tools are being released (primarily RDF based
>>> but Ontology editors and othe semantic technologiesr  too) that look
>>> as if they are promising and useful  but little or no 'usability
>>> good practices' is in place to make such applications useful to
>>> those who have never seen one before  (ie  the majority of the
>>> intended users)
>>>
>>> People (non developers) dont know
>>> a) what to do with theb
>>> b) how to do it
>>>
>>> 2. you can look at all the usability issues that once existed about
>>> web 1.0, great advances have been made there in term
>>> of internet usability/accessibility, so that now even  grandparents
>>> can manage to check emails without prior knowledge - we are in a
>>> similar phase with semantic web applications, we (non developers,
>>> otherwise intelligent - users with different operational business
>>> and other IT background not RDF) need/want to learn how to use them
>>> and give feedback to developers, but they cant. They also feel a
>>> little helpless and stupid in the process, typical symptoms of poor
>>> usability
>>>
>>> Semantic technologies are now designed to be used by specialists
>>> (understandable as these are mostly alpha/beta, but as they become
>>> more and more pervasive, also their usability must increase)
>>>
>>> 3. Genral lack of guidelines, how to's and comprehensive list of
>>> tutorials and support for people who would like to use the
>>> things, as well as for developers who dont know what seem to
>>> understand what the issues are. Sometimes semantic web tools appear
>>> mysterious in appearance and functionality to the uninitated.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think in the BOF we could aim to expand the above list of 'issues'
>>> with inputs from different viewpoints, identify what is the cause of
>>> lack of usability, discuss possible initiatives that could increase
>>> usability, including possibly some futuristic web based
>>> application/service to collect all the user comments from semantic
>>> test environments and gather them in a repository that could be used
>>> to develop tutorials (support the users) as well as guidelines (help
>>> the developers develop more friendly tools following appropriate
>>> guidelines). Anything else that interested contributors feel should
>>> be added/discussed
>>>
>>>
>>> Wiki
>>>
>>> I tried to log into Roberto's suggested wiki, but cannot creat an
>>> account (the option login/create account only leads to
>>> a login screen, not a create account one) I have already written to
>>> Robert about it
>>>
>>> Could not find conference wiki
>>>
>>> Any wiki where I can write to would be good at stage, if you can set
>>> one up quickly on the way to the airport
>>> and post the contents of this message, if we dont hear from Roberto
>>> otherwise, would be fine for me
>>>
>>> Thanks Ivan and all
>>> Please note that your reply if you dont cc my gmail
>>>
>>>
>>> look forward
>>>
>>> PDM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org
>>> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
>>> To: <editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>>
>>> Cc: <emmanuelle@sidar.org <mailto:emmanuelle@sidar.org>>;
>>> "'T.Heath'" <T.Heath@open.ac.uk <mailto:T.Heath@open.ac.uk>>;
>>> "'SW-forum Web'" <semantic-web@w3.org <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 3:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Semantic Web Usability BOF in Busan
>>>
>>>
>>> Setting up a wiki page on ESW is not a problem; but Roberto referred to
>>> an existing page already. Whichever people feel is better.
>>>
>>> I would still like to understand the issues first.
>>>
>>> Is there some sort of a wiki or other option set up for ISWC
>>> participants? It would be a good place to organize such ad hoc
>>> get-togethers... I have tried to find at the ISWC page, but have not
>>> found any.
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>>
>>> P.S. Leaving for Korea in about 5 hours...
>>>
>>> editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Ivan and all
>>>>
>>>> thanks for the interest in this issue
>>>> it will be good to meet
>>>>
>>>> It looks like from the responses so far that we have some momentum,
>>>> and
>>>> considering I cannot quite help with the debugging of the applications
>>>> just as yet , I ll be happy to help foster a plan
>>>>
>>>> Is there a W3C wiki page dedicated to Usability of Semantic Web
>>>> where I
>>>> can post some notes? If not shall I open a wiki elsewhere? Thanks
>>>>
>>>> The people who have expressed explicit interest so far are
>>>> Emmanuelle Sidar
>>>> Tom Heath  Open U
>>>> Knud Hinner Deri
>>>> M Daquin Open U
>>>> Hugh Glaser
>>>> Roberto Garcia
>>>> J Chetwynd
>>>> Richard Cygniak
>>>> Ivan Herman
>>>> (update this list if I missed anyone)
>>>> Adrian Walker sent some notes (havent read yet)
>>>> [1]
>>>> www.reengineeringllc.com/Internet_Business_Logic_e-Government_Presentation.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Except for those who are not in Busan, whom we shall keep posted of
>>>> any
>>>> discussions and outcomes on list,  I look forward to be meeting
>>>> everybody in the next few days
>>>>
>>>> Tom Heath suggests a  BOF meeting at lunch on Thursday, which may be
>>>> fine for some but others may have flown already by then, so anyone who
>>>> can make it for lunch contact Tom directly to get details/directions
>>>>
>>>> I hope that maybe an additional/alternative informal get together
>>>> before
>>>> Thursday an be arranged, for those who still have a spare slot and may
>>>> have left by Thursday -  email your availability and/or just catch
>>>> me (
>>>> I ll try to wear a tshirt
>>>> that says SEMANTIC USABILITY  if I can get it printed on the fly)
>>>>
>>>> i am best contacted via  paola.dimaio ATDONOTSPAMMEANYMORE gmail.com,
>>>> but cannot post to list from there
>>>>
>>>> With the OK of the organisers, I will put up a notice on the
>>>> conference
>>>> message board about details
>>>>
>>>> Look forward!
>>>> Thanks a lot for interest
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Paola Di Maio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org
>>>> <mailto:ivan@w3.org>>
>>>> To: <editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>>
>>>> Cc: <emmanuelle@sidar.org <mailto:emmanuelle@sidar.org>>;
>>>> "'T.Heath'" <T.Heath@open.ac.uk <mailto:T.Heath@open.ac.uk>>;
>>>> "'SW-forum
>>>> Web'" <semantic-web@w3.org <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:01 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Semantic Web Usability BOF in Busan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I will be there. And I would like to understand the issues and whether
>>>> W3C is in position to do something about those.
>>>>
>>>> Note that W3C has been facing the issue of usability for a long time
>>>> (Semantic or not Semantic Web) but we could never get enough member
>>>> enthusiasm to start something more serious in the area.... (except for
>>>> the web accessibility area which probably includes a subset of the
>>>> general usability issues).
>>>>
>>>> Ivan
>>>>
>>>> editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Tom and I and others may meet in Busan next week, this is
>>>>> something I ll put in my agenda too to instigate about. Anyone
>>>>> else on
>>>>> this list is going to be in Busan, and has an interest in
>>>>> Usability and
>>>>> Accessibility and related issues, please mail me online and I ll post
>>>>> details of any time/place suggested for an informal get together to
>>>>> scheme something up
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> Paola Di Maio
>>>>> www.mfu.ac.th
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y Restrepo"
>>>>> <emmanuelle@sidar.org <mailto:emmanuelle@sidar.org>>
>>>>> To: "'T.Heath'" <T.Heath@open.ac.uk <mailto:T.Heath@open.ac.uk>>;
>>>>> <editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>>;
>>>>> "'SW-forum Web'" <semantic-web@w3.org <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:01 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tom and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you are right, and it has not been my intention, "tar you all
>>>>> with the
>>>>> same brush".
>>>>> But I know a lot of developers of semantics applications, which
>>>>> are nice,
>>>>> intelligent, and whom I greatly appreciate; And yet not often
>>>>> worry about
>>>>> the accessibility of his creatures.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the Paola's idea can be useful. We are working in some
>>>>> similar,
>>>>> so maybe we can work on it togheter.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we can think in another ideas. But I think that the W3C has some
>>>>> type of
>>>>> responsability on it too. And I'm sure that they can do something
>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Emmanuelle
>>>>>
>>>>> Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y Restrepo  Fundaciรณn Sidar
>>>>> Coordinadora del SIDAR www.sidar.org <http://www.sidar.org>
>>>>> Email: coordina@sidar.org <mailto:coordina@sidar.org>
>>>>> Tel.: +34 - 91 725 71 47
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Mensaje original-----
>>>>> De: T.Heath [mailto:T.Heath@open.ac.uk]
>>>>> Enviado el: miรฉrcoles, 07 de noviembre de 2007 16:04
>>>>> Para: emmanuelle@sidar.org <mailto:emmanuelle@sidar.org>;
>>>>> editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>; SW-forum
>>>>> Web
>>>>> Asunto: RE: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Emmanuelle,
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand and share your apparent frustration, but please don't
>>>>> "tar us
>>>>> all with the same brush" [1] :) There are many people working in the
>>>>> Semantic Web field who care deeply about understanding, and
>>>>> catering to,
>>>>> the
>>>>> needs of human users (yes, you and I agree, humans are the
>>>>> Semantic Web's
>>>>> ultimate target audience). Last year's SWUI workshop at ISWC [2]
>>>>> and the
>>>>> next in the series [3] at CHI2008 are good indicators of this
>>>>> commitment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, and despite this, the human agenda doesn't always get the
>>>>> recognition
>>>>> it deserves in the community. Some additional initiatives in this
>>>>> area
>>>>> would
>>>>> be a great idea I think :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tar+with+the+same+brush
>>>>> [2] http://swui.semanticweb.org/swui06/
>>>>> [3] http://swui.semanticweb.org/SWUI2008CHI/
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: semantic-web-request@w3.org
>>>>> <mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org> on behalf of Emmanuelle
>>>>> Gutiรฉrrez y
>>>>> Restrepo
>>>>> Sent: Wed 07/11/2007 12:27 PM
>>>>> To: editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>;
>>>>> 'SW-forum Web'
>>>>> Subject: RE: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi "PDM",
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with you. There are a lot of work around the "semantic
>>>>> web" and
>>>>> maybe is a good work for the "machines". But I can't understand
>>>>> why the
>>>>> people working on it don't care about accessibility. The semantic
>>>>> web is
>>>>> nothing if can't be useful for the humans.
>>>>>
>>>>> Accessibility means usability for all. So, I think that complain
>>>>> with the
>>>>> WCAG must be *prerequisite* for each semantic web application.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y Restrepo         Fundaciรณn Sidar
>>>>> Coordinadora del SIDAR                  www.sidar.org
>>>>> Email: coordina@sidar.org <mailto:coordina@sidar.org>
>>>>> Tel.: +34 - 91 725 71 47
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  _____
>>>>>
>>>>> De: semantic-web-request@w3.org
>>>>> [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org] En
>>>>> nombre de editor@content-wire.com <mailto:editor@content-wire.com>
>>>>> Enviado el: miรฉrcoles, 07 de
>>>>> noviembre de
>>>>> 2007 11:40
>>>>> Para: SW-forum Web
>>>>> Asunto: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I must say something
>>>>> There are a lot of cool applications coming up, I try most of them
>>>>> , but
>>>>> they are new I am not sure what to expect exactly. What should it do?
>>>>> How do
>>>>> I know if there is an error, or if this is really the way it
>>>>> should look?
>>>>> Little documentation, usability almost not taken into account etc.
>>>>> Also I dont have all day, just a few minutes, a few clicks, then I
>>>>> lose
>>>>> interest, must move on
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, the linked data below is quite straighforward intuitive
>>>>> interface
>>>>> (not
>>>>> bad in fact) although a few more explanations and how to's would be
>>>>> good. I
>>>>> also got an error when I tried it (different from the error below)
>>>>> not
>>>>> sure
>>>>> what to do next
>>>>>
>>>>> All this to suggest  a forum is created to handle usability of
>>>>> semantic
>>>>> applications, where we 'users' can report our experiences and get
>>>>> some
>>>>> help
>>>>> in running/understanding the stuffs. I have a lot of feedback and
>>>>> user
>>>>> tests
>>>>> already running on semantic applications, may be most productive if
>>>>> handled
>>>>> collectively and shared, rather than just sent to the developers
>>>>> who are
>>>>> likely not to understand my problem anyway (we seem to speak
>>>>> different
>>>>> languages)
>>>>>
>>>>> thoughts?
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> PDM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Tim Berners-Lee <mailto:timbl@w3.org>
>>>>> To: Hugh Glaser <mailto:hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>>>> Cc: Linking Open Data <mailto:linking-open-data@simile.mit.edu>  ;
>>>>> SW-forum
>>>>> Web <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>  ; Ian  <mailto:icm@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>>>> Millard
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:15 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Linked Data available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Umm ,,, in
>>>>> http://nsf.rkbexplorer.com/data/person-6092a2a72319fc9437583fb2d04733ea
>>>>> I
>>>>> get
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Request for
>>>>> http://nsf.rkbexplorer.com/data/person-6092a2a72319fc9437583fb2d04733eaabout
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> under the hood
>>>>> Label Request for
>>>>> http://nsf.rkbexplorer.com/data/person-6092a2a72319fc9437583fb2d04733ea
>>>>>
>>>>> Status 200
>>>>> StatusText OK
>>>>> Accept-ranges bytes
>>>>> Connection close
>>>>> Content-length 2005
>>>>> Content type text/xml
>>>>> Date Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:27:37 GMT
>>>>> Etag "7785ba-7d5-43e4bd0f48e00"
>>>>> Last-modified Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:27:36 GMT Server Apache/2.0.52 (Red
>>>>> Hat)
>>>>> Handler opt off expandfetchSourceFetcher.XMLHandler
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Something funny about the XML:  Line 2: doctype broken.  Shoud not
>>>>> be a
>>>>> doctype.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>>>>> <!DOCTYPE rdf:RDF [
>>>>>        <!ENTITY rdf 'http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY rdfs 'http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY owl 'http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY akt 'http://www.aktors.org/ontology/portal#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY akts 'http://www.aktors.org/ontology/support#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY extn 'http://www.aktors.org/ontology/extension#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY wiki 'http://resist.ecs.soton.ac.uk/wiki/'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY resist
>>>>> 'http://resist.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ontologies/resist#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY resex
>>>>> 'http://resist.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ontologies/resilience-mechanisms#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY courseware
>>>>> 'http://www.resist-noe.org/ontology/courseware#'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY dc 'http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/'>
>>>>>        <!ENTITY dct 'http://purl.org/dc/terms/'>
>>>>> ]>
>>>>> <rdf:RDF
>>>>>        xmlns:rdf="&rdf;"
>>>>>        xmlns:rdfs="&rdfs;"
>>>>>        xmlns:owl="&owl;"
>>>>>        xmlns:akt="&akt;"
>>>>>        xmlns:akts="&akts;"
>>>>>        xmlns:extn="&extn;"
>>>>>        xmlns:wiki="&wiki;"
>>>>>        xmlns:resist="&resist;"
>>>>>        xmlns:resex="&resex;"
>>>>>        xmlns:courseware="&courseware;"
>>>>>        xmlns:dc="&dc;"
>>>>>        xmlns:dct="&dct;"
>>>>>        >
>>>>>        <owl:Ontology rdf:about="">
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [....]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>> PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> n - max wilson
>> e - mlw05r@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:mlw05r@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>> w - www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~mlw05r <http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~mlw05r>
>> t - +44 (0) 2380 598367
>> ----------------------------------
>>
>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|  Professor Abraham Bernstein, PhD
|  University of Zürich, Department of Informatics
|  phone: +41 44 635 4579 
|  web: www.ifi.uzh.ch/~bernstein 
|  mail: Binzmühlestrasse 14, CH-8050 Zürich, Switzerland 
Received on Sunday, 11 November 2007 02:22:33 GMT

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