Re: journal article for next call?

On 11/21/13 1:36 PM, Niklas Lindström wrote:

>
>
> Ah, that was a long way back in my mind today! :) Thanks for bringing it
> to light in relation to this! I really think we should consider merging
> these proposals somehow. How different are these "world views", really?
> Might a scruffy union make things simpler for us all? I really hope so.

Me, too (hope so). However, not all of what they have makes sense to me. 
They have:

      Periodical Series - a sequential grouping of periodical issues - 
The New Yorker, Redbook, The Lancet, Amazing Spider-Man
     Periodical Issues - individual instances of periodicals - The New 
Yorker Vol. 1, Issue 4
     Individual comic issues - short-form, saddle-stitched, serially 
published comics (the pamphlet-sized comics seen in comic book stores 
and hobby shops) - Amazing Spider-Man# 600

I'm fine with their "individual comic issue". In fact, when I look at 
the comics in my modest (mostly vintage) collection, they have all kinds 
of different series based on story arcs and sometimes no more than "1 of 
2" so they definitely have numberings that aren't equivalent to journal 
numbering.

Here's more from their page:

Periodical Series (extends and inherits all fields from Intangible)

     endYear [number] the last year of publication of the series
     imprint [string] the publishing division which published the series
     startYear [number] the first year of publication of the series
     volume [string] the volume identifier for series

Periodical Issue (extends and inherits all fields from Creative Work)

     issueNumber [number] the issue number within the series
     numberOfPages [number] the page count for the issue
     series [periodicalSeries] the series to which the issue belongs
     subtitle [string] the subtitle for the issue (e.g. "The Music 
Issue" or "The Anniversary Issue")
     upc [string] the UPC number of the issue
     numberOfPages [number] the number of pages in the issue

Not very similar... but it's easy to see that having two very different 
proposals called "Periodical" could lead to confusion. And note that 
they were extending Intangible with Series - much like Dan's extention 
of Intangible with Issuance. So there's some sense to that, for some 
folks. But "imprint" in Intangible?! (Also note the repeat of 
numberOfPages, which already exists in /Book, and UPC, which I believe 
is covered in Product with gtin13 - 14 and 8.)



>
> (For that matter, I think Series, TVSeries and TVSeason also have
> interesting characteristics that might be shared at some level with the
> notions we are working with here. At least by using Collection as a
> common superclass.)

Ah, even more complication! Thank you, Niklas :-).

In terms of "periodicity" broadcast provides at least as much 
complication as print materials. Note that schema.org/Series is defined 
as TV or radio series -- thus not usable for print materials.


> (Plus, although we may not want
>     to go there, some A&I services include number of pages in their
>     metadata, which was used during the photocopy days of article ILL.
>     Presumably this can be inherited from CreativeWork.)
>
>
> These are interesting questions. There is the possibility, which DanBri
> also recently mentioned on public-vocabs [2], of linking properties to
> their super-properties (using rdfs:subPropertyOf). I think a generic
> extent property could indeed be useful (with an undefined range, or a
> simple range like Text), from which specific properties such as
> numberOfPages and duration can be derived. That would clearly group them
> together, which may also be navigable through the documentation pages in
> the future (something Dan hints at).
>
>
>
>         Finally I can't say I'm keen on Issuance although it's not
>         something I'd
>         lose sleep over. Perhaps something like 'PublicationIssue' might
>         work?
>
>
>     I, too, have some problems with "Issuance," but it's mainly that I
>     don't see a new type as being necessary to carry those properties.
>     I'd like to see an example where adding volume and issue to
>     Periodical causes problems. Do we anticipate that there will be
>     non-periodicals that use this?
>
>
> Do you mean that the Periodical class may be used to describe both the
> Periodical at large, as well as individual issues thereof? I'm can
> imagine using it to cover both notions if merely omitting some
> properties for the more general periodical would do the trick (just as
> with various general and specific CreativeWork notions).

Actually, I was wondering about the utility of:

[sketchy example begins]

Periodical
   name
   issuance
     volume
     number
     date

vs.

Periodical
   name
   volume
   number
   date

I'm not getting the reason for the "issuance" as an intermediate level. 
So if anyone can illustrate why it's needed, that would help. Thanks,

kc


>
> (Btw., I just realized I wrote Publication instead of Periodical in
> quite a few places in my last mail. Just drifted since
> 'PublicationIssue' reads much better than 'PeriodicalIssue'..)
>
> Cheers,
> Niklas
>
> [2]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2013Oct/0224.html
>
>
>     kc
>
>     [1] http://www.w3.org/wiki/__WebSchemas/PeriodicalsComics
>     <http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/PeriodicalsComics>
>
>
>
>         Owen
>
>         Owen Stephens
>         Owen Stephens Consulting
>         Web: http://www.ostephens.com
>         Email: owen@ostephens.com <mailto:owen@ostephens.com>
>         <mailto:owen@ostephens.com <mailto:owen@ostephens.com>>
>
>         Telephone: 0121 288 6936
>
>         On 21 Nov 2013, at 14:30, Dan Scott <denials@gmail.com
>         <mailto:denials@gmail.com>
>         <mailto:denials@gmail.com <mailto:denials@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>             On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Owen Stephens
>             <owen@ostephens.com <mailto:owen@ostephens.com>
>             <mailto:owen@ostephens.com <mailto:owen@ostephens.com>>> wrote:
>
>                 Thanks for this Dan. I'm afraid I can't make the call
>                 today but I had a
>                 question - why is 'Issuance' under 'Intangible' and not
>                 'CreativeWork'?
>
>
>             Great question Owen!
>
>             My rationale was that I was hoping to avoid the mass of
>             properties you
>             inherit from CreativeWork, with the goal of guiding users of
>             these
>             types towards consistent usage patterns (that is to say,
>             keeping data
>             about the Periodical at the Periodical level, and data about the
>             Article at the Article level, and keeping a bare minimum of
>             data at
>             the Issuance level). Of the CreativeWork properties,
>             "datePublished"
>             was the most obviously useful one.
>
>             Last night I was musing that "editor" may also come into
>             play at the
>             level of a given Issuance and probably should be drafted
>             into Issuance
>             as well; but the rest of the properties seem more
>             appropriate to be
>             applied to the Periodical as a whole, or to the individual
>             Articles
>             within the given Issuance.
>
>             I thought the Series / Episode pattern might be instructive
>             for our
>             Periodical / Issuance. Episode inherits from CreativeWork,
>             but the
>             more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that an
>             Episode really
>             is a standalone CreativeWork, whereas a given issue of a
>             periodical is
>             generally not much more than a collection of individual
>             CreativeWorks.
>             To be sure, the editor of a given issue does put their stamp
>             on the
>             end result, puts in a tremendous amount of labour
>             coordinating efforts
>             of the various contributors, and often guides the subject matter
>             chosen for that issue, but it seems like a stretch to call
>             the issue a
>             CreativeWork.
>
>             However, if we do opt to go with the "Issuance inherits from
>             CreativeWork" route, then I would argue that "pagination" should
>             simply be added to CreativeWork. (Yes, this leads to movies or
>             sculptures with paginations... ah well, maybe it's a flip-book
>             animation, or a sculpture made out of numbered pieces of paper!)
>
>             One other note on naming: I went with "Issuance" rather than
>             "Issue"
>             to avoid claiming the namespace that might also be desired
>             by bug
>             trackers or international policy metadata. Those in a
>             position of
>             marking up individual issues of a periodical seem likely to
>             be able to
>             deal with "Issuance" as a term.
>
>             Dan
>
>
>
>     --
>     Karen Coyle
>     kcoyle@kcoyle.net <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net> http://kcoyle.net
>     m: 1-510-435-8234 <tel:1-510-435-8234>
>     skype: kcoylenet
>
>

-- 
Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet

Received on Friday, 22 November 2013 00:53:58 UTC