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Re: EBNF grammar of presentation syntax

From: Axel Polleres <axel.polleres@deri.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:47:19 +0100
Cc: "RIF \(E-mail\)" <public-rif-wg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <7A574182-9F08-417F-A58C-E4F66FAADED0@deri.org>
To: "Sandro Hawke" <sandro@w3.org>

On 21 Sep 2009, at 15:10, Sandro Hawke wrote:

>
> > I think we might want to apply the restrictions for variable names,
> > profile names and prefixes to NCNames also in
> > the XML syntax. This does not restrict the expressivity of the
> > language and thus is IMO not a problem.
>
> In general: Is there some new information here that motivates  
> revisiting
> these decision?
>

We had some ambiguities in the PS, by the overly liberal use of  
UNICODESTRING (e.g. for prefixes, profile names, variables)
which we resolved last time to be restricted to NCNames instead, cf.  
ACTION-914

> Variable names: I don't think NCNames are a good match here. I expect
> people to want to support spaces in variables, for instance.  In a PS,
> you can add some sort of quoting.

cf.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2009Sep/att-0045/15-Sept-2009-rif-mins.html#item04

* I have no objections to allow quoted varnames as alternative as  
well, do we need it?

>
> Profile names: We have profile names?  I don't remember them.  Where  
> are
> they in the syntax?
>

You are right, profiles are ANGLEBRACKIRIs, confused that with Dialect  
names, cf.

  Dialect        ::= 'Dialect' '(' Name ')'

Here is where else we have 'Name's now:

Var            ::= '?' Name
Prefix         ::= 'Prefix' '(' Name ANGLEBRACKIRI ')'
UNITERM        ::= TERMULA '(' (TERMULA* | (Name '->' TERMULA)*) ')'


> Prefixes: I'm pretty sure these don't occur in the XML.
>

Yup,  how about dialects, variable and named arguments in uniterms?
I agree that a mismatch between PS and XML syntax here would be  
undesirable.

Axel

>      -- Sandro
>
>
>
> > Opinions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Axel
> >
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: Carlos Dam=E1sio <cd@di.fct.unl.pt>
> > > Date: 21 September 2009 14:28:21 GMT+01:00
> > > To: "Polleres, Axel" <axel.polleres@deri.org>
> > > Cc: <public-rif-comments@w3.org>
> > > Subject: Re: EBNF grammar of presentation syntax
> > >
> > > Dear Axel,
> > >
> > > I acknowledge receipt of the email and agree with the (partial)
> > > solution.
> > > This is the simple and natural correction, and believe general  
> enough
> > > for most purposes.
> > >
> > > However, notice that in this way is not possible to use arbitrary
> > > UNICODESTRINGs in names, NCNames only
> > > (some sentences in the documents produced by the WG assume general
> > > strings).
> > > So, there are some documents that can be expressed in the exchange
> > > syntax (i.e. XML) which cannot be represented in the
> > > presentation syntax. I don't know if this is a problem or not.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Carlos Viegas Dam=E1sio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Em 2009/09/19, =E0s 13:50, Axel Polleres escreveu:
> > >
> > > > Dear Carlos,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for spotting this. We have updated the EBNF productions  
> in
> > > > RIF FLD and BLD to only
> > > > allow NCNames (instead of arbitrary unicode strings) for  
> localnames,
> > > > Prefix names,
> > > > Variable names and Profiles names, cf. [1,2,3]
> > > >
> > > > Please acknowledge receipt of this email to =
> > <mailto:public-rif-comments@w3.org
> > > > >
> > > > (replying to this email should suffice). In your acknowledgment
> > > > please let us
> > > > know whether or not you are satisfied with the working group's
> > > > response to your
> > > > comment.
> > > >
> > > > with best regards,
> > > > Axel
> > > >
> > > > 1. =
> > http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#EBNF_Grammar_for_the_Presentation_Sy=
> > ntax_of_RIF-FLD
> > > > 2. =
> > http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#EBNF_Grammar_for_the_Presentation_Sy=
> > ntax_of_RIF-BLD_.28Informative.29
> > > > 3. =
> > http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Shortcuts_for_Constants_in_RIF.27s_P=
> > resentation_Syntax
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Axel Polleres
> > > > Digital Enterprise Research Institute, National University of
> > > > Ireland, Galway
> > > > email: axel.polleres@deri.org  url: http://www.polleres.net/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --=20
> > Dr. Axel Polleres
> > Digital Enterprise Research Institute, National University of  
> Ireland, =20=
> >
> > Galway
> > email: axel.polleres@deri.org  url: http://www.polleres.net/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --Apple-Mail-22-355523761
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> >       charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
> > -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; =
> > "><div>Dear all,</div><div><br></div><div>I think we might want to  
> apply =
> > the restrictions for variable names, profile names and prefixes to =
> > NCNames also in&nbsp;</div><div>the XML syntax.&nbsp;This does not =
> > restrict the expressivity of the language and thus is IMO not a =
> > problem.</div><div><br></div><div>Opinions?&nbsp;</div><div><br></ 
> div><div=
> > >Thanks,</div><div>Axel =
> > &nbsp;</div><div><div><div><br></div><div><div><br><div>Begin  
> forwarded =
> > message:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
> > type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> > margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
> > style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0,  
> 0, 0, =
> > 1);"><b>From: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
> > font-size:medium;">Carlos Dam=E1sio &lt;<a =
> > href=3D"mailto:cd@di.fct.unl.pt">cd@di.fct.unl.pt</a>&gt;<br></ 
> span></div>=
> > <div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom:  
> 0px; =
> > margin-left: 0px;"><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
> > font-size:medium; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1);"><b>Date: </b></ 
> span><span =
> > style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">21 September  
> 2009 =
> > 14:28:21 GMT+01:00<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> > margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
> > style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0,  
> 0, 0, =
> > 1);"><b>To: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
> > font-size:medium;">"Polleres, Axel" &lt;<a =
> > href=3D"mailto:axel.polleres@deri.org">axel.polleres@deri.org</ 
> a>&gt;<br><=
> > /span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> > margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
> > style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0,  
> 0, 0, =
> > 1);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; =
> > font-size:medium;">&lt;<a =
> > href=3D"mailto:public-rif-comments@w3.org">public-rif- 
> comments@w3.org</a>&=
> > gt;<br></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right:  
> 0px; =
> > margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span =
> > style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(0,  
> 0, 0, =
> > 1);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style=3D"font- 
> family:'Helvetica'; =
> > font-size:medium;"><b>Re: EBNF grammar of presentation =
> > syntax</b><br></span></div><br>
> > <div>
> > <!-- Converted from text/plain format --><p><font size=3D"2">Dear =
> > Axel,<br>
> > <br>
> > I acknowledge receipt of the email and agree with the =
> > (partial)&nbsp;<br>
> > solution.<br>
> > This is the simple and natural correction, and believe general =
> > enough&nbsp;<br>
> > for most purposes.<br>
> > <br>
> > However, notice that in this way is not possible to use =
> > arbitrary&nbsp;<br>
> > UNICODESTRINGs in names, NCNames only<br>
> > (some sentences in the documents produced by the WG assume =
> > general&nbsp;<br>
> > strings).<br>
> > So, there are some documents that can be expressed in the =
> > exchange&nbsp;<br>
> > syntax (i.e. XML) which cannot be represented in the<br>
> > presentation syntax. I don't know if this is a problem or not.<br>
> > <br>
> > Best regards,<br>
> > <br>
> > Carlos Viegas Dam=E1sio<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Em 2009/09/19, =E0s 13:50, Axel Polleres escreveu:<br>
> > <br>
> > &gt; Dear Carlos,<br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt; Thanks for spotting this. We have updated the EBNF  
> productions =
> > in&nbsp;<br>
> > &gt; RIF FLD and BLD to only<br>
> > &gt; allow NCNames (instead of arbitrary unicode strings) for =
> > localnames,&nbsp;<br>
> > &gt; Prefix names,<br>
> > &gt; Variable names and Profiles names, cf. [1,2,3]<br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt; Please acknowledge receipt of this email to &lt;<a =
> > href=3D"mailto:public-rif-comments@w3.org">mailto:public-rif- 
> comments@w3.o=
> > rg</a> <br>
> > &gt; &gt;<br>
> > &gt; (replying to this email should suffice). In your =
> > acknowledgment&nbsp;<br>
> > &gt; please let us<br>
> > &gt; know whether or not you are satisfied with the working =
> > group's&nbsp;<br>
> > &gt; response to your<br>
> > &gt; comment.<br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt; with best regards,<br>
> > &gt; Axel<br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt; 1. <a =
> > href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/FLD#EBNF_Grammar_for_the_Present=
> > ation_Syntax_of_RIF-FLD">http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ 
> FLD#EBNF_Gramma=
> > r_for_the_Presentation_Syntax_of_RIF-FLD</a><br>
> > &gt; 2. <a =
> > href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/BLD#EBNF_Grammar_for_the_Present=
> > ation_Syntax_of_RIF-BLD_.28Informative.29">http://www.w3.org/2005/ 
> rules/wi=
> > ki/BLD#EBNF_Grammar_for_the_Presentation_Syntax_of_RIF-BLD_. 
> 28Informative.=
> > 29</a><br>
> > &gt; 3. <a =
> > href=3D"http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/DTB#Shortcuts_for_Constants_in_R=
> > IF.27s_Presentation_Syntax">http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/ 
> DTB#Shortcut=
> > s_for_Constants_in_RIF.27s_Presentation_Syntax</a><br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt; --<br>
> > &gt; Dr. Axel Polleres<br>
> > &gt; Digital Enterprise Research Institute, National University =
> > of&nbsp;<br>
> > &gt; Ireland, Galway<br>
> > &gt; email: <a =
> > href=3D"mailto:axel.polleres@deri.org">axel.polleres@deri.org</ 
> a>&nbsp; =
> > url: <a href=3D"http://www.polleres.net/">http://www.polleres.net/ 
> </a><br>=
> >
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > &gt;<br>
> > <br>
> > </font>
> > </p>
> >
> > </div>
> > </blockquote></div><br><div>
> > <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse:  
> separate; =
> > color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; =
> > font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
> > letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text- 
> align: =
> > auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
> > widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing:  
> 0px; =
> > -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
> > -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size- 
> adjust: =
> > auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"margin- 
> top: =
> > 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;  
> font: =
> > normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">--&nbsp;</div><div =
> > style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> > margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal  
> Helvetica; =
> > ">Dr. Axel Polleres</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin- 
> right: =
> > 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal  
> normal =
> > 12px/normal Helvetica; ">Digital Enterprise Research Institute,  
> National =
> > University of Ireland, Galway</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> > margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font:  
> normal =
> > normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; ">email: <a =
> > href=3D"mailto:axel.polleres@deri.org">axel.polleres@deri.org</ 
> a>&nbsp;<sp=
> > an class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>url: <a =
> > href=3D"http://www.polleres.net/">http://www.polleres.net/</a></ 
> div><div =
> > style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> > margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal  
> Helvetica; =
> > min-height: 14px; "><br></div></div></span><br =
> > class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
> > </div>
> > <br></div></div></div></body></html>=
> >
> > --Apple-Mail-22-355523761--
>

-- 
Dr. Axel Polleres
Digital Enterprise Research Institute, National University of Ireland,  
Galway
email: axel.polleres@deri.org  url: http://www.polleres.net/
Received on Monday, 21 September 2009 14:48:06 GMT

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