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RE: RDF Primer Typo

From: Markus Lanthaler <markus.lanthaler@gmx.net>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:50:37 +0100
To: "'Guus Schreiber'" <guus.schreiber@vu.nl>, "'Public RDF comments list'" <public-rdf-comments@w3.org>
Cc: "'Yves Raimond'" <yves.raimond@bbc.co.uk>, "'RDF WG'" <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <00ef01cf3217$6d1eb7c0$475c2740$@lanthaler@gmx.net>
Thanks Guus!

I'm very happy with this document now. I think it provides a great, and most
importantly, accessible introduction to RDF. Thanks to you and Yves for
bearing with me :-)


Cheers,
Markus


--
Markus Lanthaler
@markuslanthaler



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Guus Schreiber [mailto:guus.schreiber@vu.nl]
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2014 12:50 PM
> To: Markus Lanthaler; 'Public RDF comments list'
> Cc: 'Yves Raimond'; 'RDF WG'
> Subject: Re: RDF Primer Typo
> 
> Markus,
> 
> Responses inline. Not: given the time constraints I changed only the
> ones I thought were most pressing,
> 
> On 21-02-14 15:18, Markus Lanthaler wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 19, 2014 11:38 PM, Guus Schreiber wrote:
> >>>> I wouldn't start the introduction with  a note which more or less
> >>>> repeats the abstract, I would instead add the reference to RDF11-
> NEW
> >>>> after the first "real" sentence.
> >>
> >> Moved Note to abstract, but keeping the Ref to rdf-new in there.
> >
> > I'm not a big fan of references in the abstract (especially
> references to
> > specific chapters). I would suggest to just remove "Secs. 3-5 can be
> used as
> > a minimalist introduction into the key elements of RDF", it's obvious
> from
> > the documents title, and (optionally) move "Changes between RDF 1.1
> and RDF
> > 1.0 (2004 version) are summarized in a separate document: "What's New
> in RDF
> > 1.1" [RDF11-NEW]" to the Introduction.
> 
> Left unchanged.
> 
> >>>> Concrete RDF syntax is introduced later in Sec. 5. -> syntaxes
> are!?
> >>
> >> I don't like "syntaxes"; I will also try to get rid of that plural
> form
> >> in other place.
> >
> > Fair enough, maybe using "language" (as in Turtle languages),
> "formats",
> > "serialization formats" or something similar would be better then!?
> It's
> > also fine for me if you prefer to leave it as is.
> 
> Changed to "languages" and "serialization formats", except where it is
> placed opposite "abstract syntax".
> 
> >>>> I noticed that you define quite a number of terms but never
> reference
> >>>> them. I was for example wondering if resource was already defined
> in
> >>>> section 3.1 and had to manually go back to the introduction to
> find
> >>>> that out. Especially for new comers I think it would be very
> helpful
> >>>> to explicitly cross-reference all these terms.
> >>
> >> Maybe that would have been nice, although this is more useful in a
> >> normative document like Concepts.  Will do this later, time
> permitting.
> >
> > I disagree. Especially newcomers unfamiliar with the terminology will
> often
> > need to jump back to a term's definition.
> 
> Added a few more links to Concepts: datatype, graph name, language tag.
> I was out of for the rest, sorry.
> 
> >>>> Section 3.3
> >>>> Literals are basic values that are not IRIs -> neither are blank
> >> nodes!
> >>
> >> Changed to "Literals are basic values that have no IRI". In this way
> it
> >> is not phrased as a logical complement and is unlikely to confuse
> >> readers.
> >
> > Hmm... better but still a bit confusing. What about "Literals are
> basic
> > values such as strings, numbers, etc." (no need to mention IRIs).
> 
> The next sentence says this already (numbers, strings). Left unchanged.
> 
> >>>> Shouldn't "datatype" and "language tag" be definitions instead of
> >>>> just being formatted in italic?
> >>
> >> See above.
> >
> > What are you referring to? That definitions are more useful in a
> normative
> > document? That doesn't matter here. It's a matter of consistency and
> style.
> >
> >
> >>>> Section 3.5
> >>>> The IRI associated with the graph is called the "graph name" ->
> >>>> graph name should be formatted as definition
> >>
> >> See above.
> >
> > See above :-)
> >
> >
> >>>> Section 4
> >>>> Instead, the example (in prose) from the second paragraph could be
> >>>> included in triple form (basically example 5, but using the same
> >>>> IRIs as in the prose)
> >>
> >> I prefer to keep the examples in the spirit of Sec. 3, and only have
> >> concrete syntax examples in Sec. 5.
> >
> > Example 4 (in section 3) already uses IRIs for everything but
> predicates.
> > Since you introduce RDF Vocabularies here and rdf:type etc. in the
> table I
> > think it would just be consequent to reuse them in Example 5. But
> I'll leave
> > it to you.
> 
> Left unchanged.
> 
> >>>> Section 5.1
> >>>> Overall, I'm wondering if it really makes sense to explain the
> "Turtle
> >>>> family of RDF languages" in so much detail. The only question that
> the
> >>>> reader will ask himself is why are there four? How do I know to
> choose
> >>>> which? These questions are not answered at all IMO. I would like
> to
> >>>> shrink this section considerably.
> >>>>
> >>>> The three pages (when printed) could probably easily be reduced to
> 1,
> >>>> max 1.5 pages without losing much. The only difference between
> >>>> N-Triples and N-Quads is the fourth component. That could be said
> in
> >>>> one sentence and be shown with a single example (default graph).
> >>>> Basically the same is true for TriG and Turtle.
> >>
> >> I do not agree. I think the current treatment is about the right
> >> length.
> >
> > OK, we agree to disagree :-)
> >
> >
> >> Rationale for each syntax is stated (see final pars of
> >> N-Triples/N-Quads, and remarks on multiple graphs for TriG). This
> was
> >> also the reason to present them as a "family".
> >
> > It just says that it is often "used for exchanging large amounts of
> RDF and
> > for processing large RDF graphs with line-oriented text processing
> tools".
> > My "critique" was that it doesn't tell a novice when to use which
> language.
> >
> >
> >> If you ask me: would it have been better to have one "Turtle family"
> >> language (name), then I would have said yes, but that ship sailed a
> >> long time ago.
> >
> > +1000
> >
> >
> >>>> Section 5.2
> > [...]
> >> OK, this example is indeed better. Will change accordingly, with
> >> explanatory text
> >
> > Great. Looks much better IMO. There's just a minor thing in the
> description:
> >
> >    The @id keyword, when used as a key in a JSON-LD document, points
> >    to an IRI identifying the resource corresponding to the parent
> >    JSON object.
> >
> > You have to say that, when used in the body of a JSON-LD document
> (not in
> > the context), the @id keyword sets the IRI identifying the resource
> > corresponding to the *current* JSON object. Not the parent one!
> Otherwise
> > Mona Lisa's @id would set the IRI of Bob's JSON object.
> 
> Changed as suggested.
> 
> >> To prevent people having to read through a very long Sec. 5 (which
> is a
> >> long-standing worry from me, as you know) I have added a reading tip
> to
> >> the start of the section:
> >>
> >> [[
> >>     Tip: we suggest to read Sec. 5.1 on the Turtle-related syntaxes
> and
> >> to read the sections on JSON-LD, RDFa and RDF/XML only when you are
> >> interested in that particular usage of RDF.
> >> ]]
> >
> > OK, it should also provide a rationale (because you explain basic
> concepts
> > in Section 5.1) so that the other languages aren't perceived as
> "second
> > class" formats. IMO, the simplest thing however would be to just
> remove it
> > to avoid wrong conclusions.
> >
> >
> >> Response to the JSON-LD part will follow in a separate message.
> >>
> >>>> Section 7
> >>>> A large amount of RDF data is available as part of the Linked Data
> >>>> [LINKED-DATA] cloud. -> the reference doesn't help here. Either
> >> remove
> >>>> it or link to http://lod-cloud.net/
> >>
> >> The ref is explicitly to Linked Data, not to the cloud. Another
> >> problem: the link you mention is not maintained currently.
> >
> > Then maybe it's better to rephrase it as
> >
> >    "A large amount of RDF data is available as Linked Data [LINKED-
> DATA]."
> 
> Changed as suggested.
> 
> >>>> The paragraph and example of sameAs doesn't belong here IMHO.
> Either
> >>>> move it to the previous section (Semantics) or simply remove it.
> >>
> >> I don't agree. Linking datasets is key in linked data, and sameAs
> plays
> >> a central role there.
> >
> > It is by far not the only mechanism to link datasets and is the root
> for
> > *many* problems. owl:sameAs needs a good understanding of what really
> > happens to be used properly. I would argue that it's not something
> for
> > newcomers and would thus really prefer to remove it.
> 
> I think important and intuitive enough to leave in. Left unchanged.
> 
> >>>> Section 8
> >>>> Could be remove completely IMO.
> >>
> >> Disagree. Some sort of (short) conclusion is good practice in my
> book.
> >
> > Agree if there is something to be said. If there's nothing, just
> leave it
> > out.
> >
> >    "This concludes our brief introduction into RDF. Please consult
> the
> >     references to get more detailed information. You might also want
> >     to take a look at the W3C Linked Data page."
> >
> > ... doesn't say much but if you prefer we can also leave it in.
> 
> Left unchanged.
> 
> Thanks again for the comments!
> Guus
> 
> >
> >
> > It's a great document. Good work!
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Markus
> >
> >
> > --
> > Markus Lanthaler
> > @markuslanthaler
> >
> >
> >
> >
Received on Tuesday, 25 February 2014 10:51:13 UTC

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