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Minutes of meeting, 2009-10-29...

From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:20:28 +0100
Message-ID: <4AEA233C.1080605@w3.org>
To: W3C RDFa task force <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>
... are at:


text version below.



      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        RDF in XHTML Task Force

29 Oct 2009



   Previous: [3]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html

   See also: [4]IRC log

      [4] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/29-rdfa-irc


          Manu Sporny, Ben Adida, Shane McCarron

          Steven Pemberton, Mark Birbeck, Ivan Herman

          Ben Adida

          Manu Sporny


     * [5]Topics
         1. [6]Action Items
         2. [7]RDFa WG Charter
         3. [8]Test Cases
         4. [9]RDFa 1.1 issues
     * [10]Summary of Action Items

Action Items


     [11] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

   <scribe> ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded
   in [12]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07

   Ben: Updated it a bit

   Manu: I also fixed some very small issues
   ... Ivan had an issue with mentioning the Microsoft extensibility

   Ben: We're interested in supporting that language extension

   <benadida> --> [13]http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-wg-charter

     [13] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-wg-charter

   (side-bar Google Chrome discussion) Everybody seems to love it.

   Ben: Manu has been asked to co-chair RDFa WG.
   ... We have 12 months to do the work and 6 months of slack.
   ... It does assume that it is going to take RDFa 1.1 to REC.

   Manu: Sent it off for review by HTML WG chairs.

   <scribe> ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa
   WG. [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [DONE]

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   <scribe> ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in
   RDFa WG. [recorded in

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is
   illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09

   <scribe> ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors'
   guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02

   <benadida> -->

     [18] http://rdfa.info/wiki/Rdfa-implementors-guide#JavaScript

   Ben: Is this test good?

   Shane: Opera isn't the special case, Opera is the one that works
   ... It seems as if this works for all cases.

   <scribe> ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org
   implementation re: c14n [recorded in

     [19] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   Manu: Jeremy thinks it is a bug in sparql.org
   ... Andy seems to think it is, but hasn't responded yet (I just
   e-mailed him last night)

   <scribe> ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded
   in [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04

RDFa WG Charter

   Ben: Any additions/changes?

   Manu: We might want to put a validator as a work item for the RDFa
   ... We might also want to produce an Javascript-based live editor
   for RDFa.

   Shane: We might also want to look at XMLSPEC - W3C recs could be
   semantically rich.

   Manu: We would probably want to say that we'd work with SVG WG and
   ODF standards body on integrating RDFa
   ... We should create a test suite for SVG.

   Shane: There are people that continue to need modularization.
   ... Maybe RDFa WG could work on modularization - it's specific to
   W3C. RDFa depends on modularization now.

   Manu: We might want to discuss this with the people at Microsoft
   that are working on decentralized extensibility.

   <benadida> ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases
   via mailing list [recorded in

Test Cases

   Manu: I'll try to drive the discussion via the mailing list and keep
   pressing people to review them.

   Shane: We may want to take a deadline approach - no comments means
   the TC is approved.

RDFa 1.1 issues

   Ben: Where do we stand on these RDFa 1.1 issues

   Manu: My preference is to work on these in this order: @profile, DOM
   API, URIs everywhere, @typeof

   Ben: Shane, what do you think should happen when @typeof is empty
   based on what the spec says?

   Shane: The presence of @typeof should trigger a bnode to be created.

   Ben: Maybe this already happens, maybe our test cases don't test
   ... This issue may already be resolved.

   <ShaneM> check

     [22] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/REC-rdfa-syntax-20081014-errata/

   Ben: Manu, you're not against typeof="", right?

   Manu: Correct, just not a high priority for me.
   ... typeof="[]"
   ... typeof="foobar"?
   ... What does that do? It creates a bnode still?

   Ben: Yes, except we can't set the type.
   ... We think the processing rules and the errata already say this -
   it would be worth clarifying step 4 in the processing rules.

   <benadida> PARTIAL CONSENSUS (because we're 3 on the call): @typeof
   presence already creates bnode, as per spec and errata. Step #4
   could use some clarification to prevent confusion.

   Ben: URIs everywhere - how can we support
   rel="[23]http://example.org/vocab#term" ?
   ... That's the goal, let's not talk about the mechanism.

     [23] http://example.org/vocab#term

   Manu: I'm fine with that goal.

   Shane: Fine with the goal, not a high priority for me.

   Ben: Don't feel very strongly about this, not going to make/break
   ... If we find a good way to do it, then great.
   ... We know some RDFa community members and WHATWG community members
   care deeply about this.

   <benadida> PARTIAL CONSENSUS: we note that some community members
   care deeply about this. The three of us are not strongly opposed,
   but it is not a high priority to resolve.

   Manu: Fine with that.

   Shane: Fine.

   Ben: DOM API - I'm not opposed, unless it's done in a pure RDF way.
   ... I think that would be a strong negative.

   Manu: The other point to make is that we might want to start with
   something very specific and let jQuery plugins aggregate
   RDFa/Microformats/Microdata APIs into an uber data API

   Shane: We've told the browser folks that we don't need browser
   support for a very long time.
   ... Now we roll out a DOM API.
   ... We don't need them to implement the API - we might get pushback
   from the browser manufacturers.

   Ben: Yes, it is a valid concern.
   ... Most concerned about the interplay between the @vocab discussion
   and the DOM API support.
   ... We're basically saying that RDFa 1.1 might require browser
   vendors to retrieve vocabulary documents.
   ... Pain lies in the intersection between @vocab and DOM API.

   Manu: We can take the JSON approach (as Sam Ruby and Doug Schepers
   outlined a month ago)... implement in jquery/javascript first...
   speed it up with native implementations later.

   Ben: Yes, I do think that may be the right approach.
   ... Direction for DOM API should be a jQuery plugin.

   Shane: We should use the DOM hasFeature mechanism.

   Ben: Don't know if Jeni's plugin does this - but it would be nice to
   trace a triple back to the DOM node element that generated it.
   ... Bi-directional visual data correspondence.

   Shane: Don't think that Mark's concept does that.

   Ben: Triple stores have origins - we might be able to hack it to
   make it an xpath into a document.

   Shane: Provenence - XPATH expression into a URI using a hash.
   ... Mark's worked on that... Document API

   Ben: Shane - regarding @vocab - I might be convinced about Mark's
   approach. Don't know if my approach is taking hold with anybody - I
   think we need to make life easier for authors, as Manu has been
   evangelizing for some time.
   ... The big problem is the requirement for dereferencing....
   ... Wondering if the parser should generate some sort of
   intermediate format?

   Shane: Isn't the intermediate format the CURIE?
   ... In the @profile proposal, you can define new keywords and remote

   Ben: Yes, the remote mappings thing is something I would have an
   issue with...
   ... A @vocab proposal where the only thing you're doing is adding a
   source of unprefixed keywords.
   ... The goal of author ease-of-use is to remove the prefixes
   ... If you're asking the author to understand that there are
   different vocabularies, I don't think you're making it transparent
   ... For example, adding foaf:name and dc:title into the same
   vocabulary - that's not easier.

   Shane: link rel="vocab" ... would override the words that are not
   core reserved words.
   ... Is that correct?

   Ben: yes, more or less.
   ... I'm making the point that you shouldn't pull in prefix
   definitions... but it would be a reserved words only approach.
   ... Indirection for definition of prefixes seems wrong to me.

   Shane: Need to think about it.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Manu to aggressively push review of test cases via
   mailing list [recorded in
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu to try and find other interested parties in
   RDFa WG. [recorded in
   [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to finish authoring RDFa WG charter. [recorded
   in [26]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Manu speak with Andy Seaborne about SPARQL.org
   implementation re: c14n [recorded in
   [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to look at XML spec and see if xml: is
   illegal in RDF/XML re: TC 142 [recorded in
   [PENDING] ACTION: Shane to re-draft XMLLiteral errata text [recorded
   in [29]http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

     [25] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action08
     [26] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action07
     [27] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action06
     [28] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action09
     [29] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action04

   [DONE] ACTION: Ben to update JS xmlns getter code on implementors'
   guide for xhtml mime type support [recorded in
   [DONE] ACTION: Ivan to talk with Peter Mika at ISWC2009 about RDFa
   WG. [recorded in

     [30] http://www.w3.org/2009/09/17-rdfa-minutes.html#action02
     [31] http://www.w3.org/2009/10/22-rdfa-minutes.html#action06

   [End of minutes]

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Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
mobile: +31-641044153
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf

Received on Thursday, 29 October 2009 23:16:50 UTC

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