W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org > May 2008

Re: Real URLs for real things

From: Steven Pemberton <steven.pemberton@cwi.nl>
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:43:39 +0200
To: "Hausenblas, Michael" <michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at>
Cc: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
Message-ID: <op.ua7cm1c4smjzpq@acer3010>

On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:30:09 +0200, Hausenblas, Michael  
<michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at> wrote:
>> And that set me thinking. Saying stuff about something that
>> doesn't have a URL is hard, hard in RDFa, hard in RDF, and
>
> Everything should have an URI to be usable on the Web of Data.

Yes, that is what I am trying to suggest. What is my URI? (Me, not my  
homepage) Answer: pto:http://www.cwi.nl/~steven, I can pull it out of thin  
air.

>> So, does anyone feel that they have enough energy for us to
>> propose a new type of URL, the primary topic of:
>
> What is a 'new type of URL'? Do you mean a new schema? Do you mean URI?

Yes, sorry, I did mean URI. And I meant scheme (as I hope the examples  
showed).

>> and so on. You would never be expected to dereference such a
>> URL, and you can see that you are talking about a meta
>> subject by inspection, and you can automatically derive:
>
> Again. Use URIs. Use HTTP URIs. And follow your nose to more information
> (hopefully again in RDF).

Too hard, that's what I am saying. Most people won't want to do all that  
work, and furthermore typically are already getting it wrong (that was my  
take away from the talk I was attending). If someone has done that work  
somewhere, then inference should reveal it.

> A lot of people had excellent thoughts on these issues, some worthwhile
> readings are:

I'll take a look.

Thanks.

Steven

> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html
>
> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/HTTP-URI.html
>
> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Abstractions.html
>
> http://dbooth.org/2007/uri-decl/
>
> http://www4.wiwiss.fu-berlin.de/bizer/pub/LinkedDataTutorial/
>
> http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/2007/11/once-more-on-information-resou
> rces-and.html
>
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Dec/0157.html
>
>
> However, it might well be the case that I didn't get the context due to
> not attending XTech ;)
>
> Cheers,
> 	Michael
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>  Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
>  Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
>  JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
>  Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf-request@w3.org
>> [mailto:public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
>> Steven Pemberton
>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:54 PM
>> To: public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org
>> Subject: Real URLs for real things
>>
>>
>> Mark and I were at XTech last week. I gave my talk on "Why
>> you should have a Website"
>> (http://2008.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/545) which
>> gives a background to why we need RDFa, and Mark gave a
>> lightning talk on RDFa.
>> But in fact RDFa seemed to be the buzzword of the conference,
>> and every other talk seemed to mention it. The most exciting
>> was Jeni Tennison's talk on adding RDFa to the London Gazette
>> (published daily since 1665).
>> http://2008.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/528
>>
>> Another interesting one was about a Semantic Web search
>> engine called Sindice
>> http://2008.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/583
>> in which the speaker talked about the sort of mistakes that
>> people made when encoding semantic information. For instance,
>> somewhere there is a FOAF page that says that Tim
>> Berners-Lee's homepage is http://www.w3.org/, and somewhere
>> else that says that W3C's home page is http://www.w3.org/,
>> and so the search engine concluded that Tim and W3C are the
>> same thing.
>>
>> Another problem that was constantly recurring, he said, was
>> due to the confusion between a page, and the thing it represented.
>>
>> And that set me thinking. Saying stuff about something that
>> doesn't have a URL is hard, hard in RDFa, hard in RDF, and
>> usually needs blanknodes, which our grandmothers are never
>> going to understand.
>>
>> So, does anyone feel that they have enough energy for us to
>> propose a new type of URL, the primary topic of:
>>
>> 	pto:http://www.w3.org/ is the W3C
>> 	pto:http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee is Tim BL
>> 	pto:mailto:timbl@w3.org is also Tim BL
>> 	pto:http://rdfa.info/ is RDFa
>>
>> and so on. You would never be expected to dereference such a
>> URL, and you can see that you are talking about a meta
>> subject by inspection, and you can automatically derive:
>>
>> 	<pto:http://www.w3.org/> foaf:isPrimaryTopicOf
>> <http:www.w3.org/>
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be far easier to use than all
>> that "#me"
>> stuff and all those 303 replies you have to organise to do it
>> right (or is it 302?).
>>
>> Steven
>>
>>
Received on Thursday, 15 May 2008 15:44:25 GMT

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