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[RDFa] Meeting record: 2007-08-02 RDF-in-XHTML telecon

From: Hausenblas, Michael <michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at>
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 23:04:15 +0200
Message-ID: <768DACDC356ED04EA1F1130F97D2985201255A5A@RZJC2EX.jr1.local>
To: "RDFa" <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>


All,

The record of the today's RDF-in-XHTML telecon is available [1].
A full text snapshot follows below.

Cheers,
	Michael

[1] http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html

Topics 
 1. Action Item Review 
 2. Test Cases 
 3. Documents 
 4. Implementations 
Summary of Action Items 

NEW] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr and post
their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael test how <SPAN /> behaves in Internet Explorer
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael to email individual emails to resolve TCs 29-33
(TC 28 to be resolved post xml:lang discussion) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben writeup a summary of this discussion [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
 
[POSTPONED] ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when
using @content after October [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]


________________________________________________________________________

			W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF
2 Aug 2007

Agenda [1]

See also: IRC log [2], previous 2007-07-26 [3]

[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Aug/0004.
html
[2] http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-irc
[3] http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html


Attendees
 Present 
  Ben Adida, Shane McCarron, Ralph Swick, Manu Sporny, Simone Onofri,
Michael Hausenblas 
 Regrets 
  Mark Birbeck 
 Chair 
  Ben 
 Scribe 
  Michael, Ralph 

Contents
 Topics 
  1. Action Item Review 
  2. Test Cases 
  3. Documents 
  4. Implementations 
 Summary of Action Items 
 

<mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

<ShaneM> might be a couple of minutes late on the phone

ok - anyway great to have you here!

<RalphS> previous 2007-07-26

Ben: Did a lot last week - now TC

Action Item Review
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html#ActionSummary

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben writeup a summary of this discussion
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[DONE]

<benadida>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jul/0209.
html

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere
proposal [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to look into Science Commons use case
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Elias to send email to list with use case
from IBM [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUES]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax
when using @content after October [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08] [CONTINUES]

Test Cases
<RalphS> scribenick: ralphs

<mhausenblas> TC

Michael: we've already reviewed 1 through 18

Ben: I can volunteer to look over the cases to see if we have
invalidated any with our recent decisions

Michael: any such cases are either 'on hold' or should be removed

test case 0019

@about for subject

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0019
test 19

proposed to accept 19

resolved to accept 19

test case 0020 Inheriting @about for subject

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0020
test 20

Michael: two nested spans

resolved to accept 20

test case 0021 Subject inheritance with no @about

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0021
test 21

Michael: the semantics now look strange to me

Ben: looks good to me; creator is specified in the correct direction

resolved to accept 21

test case 0022 meta with parent @id

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0022
test 22

Ben: given that we're not including META in body in XHTML 1, we should
reject this test

resolved to reject 22

test case 0023 Ignore @id in non-parent ancestor

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0023
test 23

Michael: this test now tests another useful feature
... we could rename it to 'test that @id does not generate subjects'

Ben: yes, this recent decision does require some implementation changes.
I have code for those edge cases, though we've not seen those edge cases
in practice

resolved to accept 23 with a renaming

<benadida> <div id="photo1"> <span class="attribution-line">this photo
was taken by <span property="dc:creator">Mark Birbeck</span> </span>
</div>

Ben: formerly this test demonstrated that 'photo1' was not inherited.
Now the same test shows that @id never triggers a triple

test case 0024 Ignore @id for non-meta and non-link

Michael: this test should be rejected as redundant

Ben: yes, effectively merged with test 23

resolved to merge 24 into 23

Michael: I'd prefer to just reject rather than merge

resolved to drop 24; it does not test anything new

test case 0025 @id for object

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0025
test 25

<benadida> <span rel="dc:creator" id="me"> <span
property="foaf:name">Ben Adida</span>, <a rel="foaf:mbox"
href="mailto:ben@adida.net">ben@adida.net</a>. </span>

<benadida> <span rel="dc:creator" id="me">

Ben: this test is "interestingly" controversial

<benadida> <> dc:creator <#me> .

Ben: I interpreted this as creating striping (or 'chaining' as Mark has
called it)
... that's what test 25 was meant to test
... one of our non-binding resolutions from last week was to not
consider @id
... so with that in mind, we should reject this test

<mhausenblas> Glossary in -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/

Michael: I'm trying to put together a glossary in the umbrella document

<mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-syntax-grammar/

Michael: I found the striping idea very confusing
... I recommend that the term 'striping' be better-defined or changed to
'chaining'

Ben: I'm happy to change the word to 'chaining' instead
... test 25 was my old idea of how the markup should work, now we're
using @href instead

Michael: rather than drop the test, let's rewrite it to use @href

Shane: this is a pretty arcane level of RDF

Ben: last week's discussion was about the use of @id to do chaining.
Mark was opposed to that

Shane: I don't much care about this notion of chaining

Ben: the intent is to be able to describe intermediate resources

Shane: that description makes a lot more sense

Ben: the concept of 'chaining' is about defining an intermediate
resource
... e.g. a music album with a musician who has a name
... the question is what XML attribute triggers this object/subject
switch
... so test 25 should confirm our decision on which attribute (now
@resource) triggers the object/subject switch
... foaf:mbox could be dropped from this test to simplify it as a
chaining test
... the foaf:mbox adds a second level of chaining

<mhausenblas> This paper was written by

<mhausenblas> <span rel="dc:creator" resource="#me">

<mhausenblas> <span property="foaf:name">Ben Adida</span>.

<mhausenblas> </span>

Ben: yes, that's the simple example

resolved to accept test 25, rewritten, and renamed to 'simple chaining
example'

<benadida> <span rel="dc:creator">

Ben: add ^ to the test for a slightly bigger example

Michael: I'd rather create a new, separate test -- call it test 33

Ben: 33 should use @rel without @resource

<mhausenblas> ... and producing the same SPARQL ask as TC25

<mhausenblas> ... with a bNode instead of #me

<Simone> Simone: phone is bad :( so TC are ok for me

test case 0026 @content

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0026
test 26

Michael: but the span has no content

Ben: so it's a empty literal

<benadida> <span about="http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/"
property="dc:creator" content="Mark Birbeck"> </span>

<mhausenblas> <span about="http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/"
property="dc:creator" content="Mark Birbeck" />

Michael: from an XML viewpoint, 26 and 27 as written are not very
different

Ben: right, we're not testing XML here. It would be OK to change 26 to
be a self-closed element

Shane: I think they're both interesting test cases; they'd really test
the DOM parser
... but I don't think self-closing SPANs work, say, in Internet Explorer

Ben: 26 is worthwhile as a self-closed element and if IE has trouble,
that's good to know

resolved to accept 26, re-written as a self-closed element

<scribe> ACTION: Michael test how <SPAN /> behaves in Internet Explorer
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

Ben: test 27 is the same as 26 but has content in the span

resolved to accept 27

test case 0028 @xml:lang and @datatype

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0028
test 28

Ben: this tests the affect of xml:lang on the triple
... test 28 looks OK to me

<benadida> ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

<mhausenblas> 

Ben: I need to followup with Ivan on the behavior of xml:lang

Michael: I think Karl's message 0198 may resolve this

Ben: ok, but I want the Task Force to review it

<benadida> ACTION: Michael to email individual emails to resolve TCs
29-33 (TC 28 to be resolved post xml:lang discussion) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

<scribe> scribenick: mhausenblas

Documents
Ben: We agreed last time to use XHTML XXX

Shane: Currently no contact to Steven
... he has the edit token

[Steven is on holiday]

Ben: We have an array of changes (chaining, no @id, etc.)

Ralph: He did no significant changes; should be back on 13 Aug
... Does Steven work offline?

<benadida> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/syntax/

Shane: Give me a correct version, I'll take care for the conversion
... may take me some couple of an hour

Ben: Not time-frozen version, but the actual one

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/syntax/Overview.xml

Ben: Pls keep me in the loop
... as Mark and Steven are on holiday
... we might need a separate chat

<RalphS> Shane: the XHTML2 WG has a separate content management system
not on w3.org

Shane: There is a separate access control/system we work on

<RalphS> Ralph: that's too bad, but if the work is getting done then ok

Ben: Have to look at the Primer
... and update it according to the newest development

Implementations
<RalphS> Shane: the intention is still to keep the syntax document as a
stand-alone document

-> http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations

<benadida> ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr
and post their implementations to
http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

<ShaneM> question: does syntax document become rec-track? I can't
remember

<ShaneM> Ben says yes.

<ShaneM> Note that there is already a separate xhtml-rdfa document that
does a similar thing, but without all the syntax parsing rules.

Ralph: TomB had the question regarding reck-track

<Simone> Simone: I'm testing Js implementation and works great, for XSL
implementation I've load a parser with Fabien's XSL but my Sablotron has
problem, so also Monkey RDFa (a PHP parser with n3 output) works good

<Simone> Simone: So on W3C XSL servlet is ok, we may ask to get an RDFa
extractor service?

<RalphS> Michael: will we ever declare the test cases frozen?

<RalphS> Ralph: as we're not doing conformance test, I suggest we leave
ourselves the option to add a test whenever we reach a decision about an
open question

<RalphS> Ben: it would be nice to be able to add a test without having
to take [the test case] document back to Last Call

<RalphS> ... for now, it's good that our strategy be to act as if the
test cases were Rec Track

<RalphS> Ben: I'll be running in-between meetings next week, may have
difficulty making a call

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr and
post their implementations to
http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to work through xml:lang issue with Ivan [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael test how <SPAN /> behaves in Internet Explorer
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael to email individual emails to resolve TCs 29-33
(TC 28 to be resolved post xml:lang discussion) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to sum up @href/@resource everywhere proposal
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben writeup a summary of this discussion [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/26-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
 
[POSTPONED] ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when
using @content after October [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]
 
[End of minutes]


----------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
 Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
 JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
 Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA

 <office>
    phone: +43-316-876-1193 (fax:-1191)   
   e-mail: michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at
      web: http://www.joanneum.at/iis/ 

 <private>
   mobile: +43-660-7621761
      web: http://www.sw-app.org/
----------------------------------------------------------
Received on Thursday, 2 August 2007 21:04:33 GMT

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