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Re: [HTML] Re: additional GRDDL editor

From: Dan Brickley <danbri@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:18:24 -0400
To: Dave Beckett <dave.beckett@bristol.ac.uk>
Cc: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>, "Ralph R. Swick" <swick@w3.org>, Ben Adida <ben@mit.edu>, 'public-rdf-in-xhtml task force'' <public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf@w3.org>, public-swbp-wg@w3.org, dom@w3.org, dean@w3.org
Message-ID: <20050518141824.GD7251@homer.w3.org>

+cc: Dean re CDF

* Dave Beckett <dave.beckett@bristol.ac.uk> [2005-05-18 14:19+0100]
> 
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 13:58:35 -0500, Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 2005-05-13 at 07:48 +0100, Dave Beckett wrote:
> > [...]
> > > I was interested enough in GRDDL to try implementing it, as I think
> > > getting semantics out of xhtml1 (and xml) is important enough to
> > > continue the GRDDL approach, while other things such as RDF/A are
> > > moving on for xhtml2+.
> > > 
> > > So, if some effort is needed I think I may offer help as co-editor
> > > if I can slot it in with my DAWG work and also trying to get 
> > > Turtle into some kind of Note too.
> > 
> > That sounds interesting!
> > 
> > 
> > > What are the goals for GRDDL in the short term - timescales,
> > > expected document status (WG note?), community review?
> > 
> > Good question...
> > 
> > Meanwhile, as the GRDDL Note was long overdue
> > for an update and it doesn't yet have a home WG, ...
> 
> I think the suggestion is that SWBPD WG would be the home?  I think
> that from chatting to the chairs briefly in Tokyo, they think it
> could live in the SWBPD.  I'm not sure of the process that makes the
> WG adopt this document, since the HTMLTF is already jointly part of
> SWBPD.

FWIW I'd be happy seeing this find a home in SWBPD.

My top wishlist there would be seeing progress on GRDDL-happy
XSLTs for the new RDF/A notation in XHTML2 (and maybe used in other
XHTML doc types, even SVG etc), examination of XSLT versioning issues (could we
cite both XSLT 1.0 and XSLT 2.0 transforms somehow, since latter 
works better with the qnames-in-attr-values approach of RDF/A). If 
we did this, I think we would have a really tight, coherent and 
implementation-friendly account of an rdf-in-xhtml roadmap. 

We(*) should also at some point have a conversation with the W3C CDF guys,
(* for some sense of 'we' :)
... http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/ 
-> http://www.w3.org/2004/CDF/admin/charter
->	"The mission of the W3C Compound Document Formats Working Group is to
	develop specifications which combine selected existing document formats
	from the W3C and elsewhere, and which specify the runtime behaviour of
	such combined documents."

...since GRDDL (and RDF/A) are pretty close to their general mission
(noting that their immediate short-term mission is more restricted).
Having GRDDL based in a WG (and SWBPD seems an OK fit to me) would make
such inter-group conversations easier (I naively hope :)

An alternative, which I'm not convinced would fly but is worth 
considering, is to enquire as to whether CDF might consider GRDDL into
their workplan. They don't currently have an appropriate deliverable
listed in the charter. The closest is:

* A Recommendation or Recommendations for combining existing W3C Document
  Formats by inclusion.

...but note that this is 'existing W3C Doc Formats', not 'existing 
community/grassroots/3rd-party RDF vocabs and microformats'. The 
broader mission statement in the CDF charter does set this in a wider 
context though, "W3C and elsewhere", but also includes a constraint that
these are "selected" rather than arbitrarily combined formats. Also 
emphasises "document formats" rather than data vocabularies; GRDDL and 
RDF, I believe, show that for the more limited field of data format 
combination, we can actually achieve more, and specify mechanisms for
"combining arbitrary existing data formats from the W3C and elsewhere".

At the least, it's an interesting exercise to contrast the scope and 
mission of CDF with GRDDL; together they tell a useful story about the 
consistency of W3C's approach to decentralised data and document design.

+1 on chatting about this during XTech,

cheers,

Dan

ps. Dean, do you know if there will be any CDF WG members at XTech next 
week?
Received on Wednesday, 18 May 2005 14:22:01 GMT

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