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Meeting record - SPARQL Telecon, Tues Mar 3

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 14:11:05 -0500
To: Lee Feigenbaum <lee@thefigtrees.net>
Cc: 'RDF Data Access Working Group' <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20090303191105.GA17424@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes

   [1]W3C

                      SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

03 Mar 2009

   [2]Agenda

   See also: [3]IRC log

Attendees

   Present
          LeeF, kasei, AndyS, +1.216.445.aaaa, iv_an_ru, bijan, [Garlik],
          Chimezie_Ogbuji, john-l, terraces, AxelPolleres, ivan,
          +656304aabb, ywang4, +1.603.897.aacc, Souri, EricP, Ori,
          daveNewman, Souri_Das

   Regrets
   Chair
          LeeF

   Scribe
          ericP, AxelPolleres

   [4]minutes from last meeting (Feb 24)

Contents

     * [5]Topics
         1. [6]admin
         2. [7]logistics
         3. [8]liaisons
         4. [9]F2F
         5. [10]use cases
     * [11]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribenick: AxelPolleres

   Lee: clarification... Wg is open only to W3C members, although we
   conduct work in public
   ... minutes, agenda, wiki are all public and encouraged to be shared.

   Lee: if you want to keep something non-public, mail us (team/chairs)

admin

   minutes from last time are on the web.

   PROPOSED: accept minutes from last week

   <bijan> I just look and they look ok

   RESOLUTION: minutes from last week approved

   next meeting: 10am US time, 1400Z

   lastlog trackbot

logistics

     * [12]SPARQL Wiki
     * [13]scribe list

   LeeF: we have intros linked from the wiki
   ... encourage others to supply intros

   john-l: chime and i missed last week

   john-l: 2nd rep for cleveland clinic (cleveburg OH)
   ... chime and i are working on an impl, hoping to push mods back into
   spec

   chime: john-l and i work on a patient registry

   chime: we've done a hand full of improvements. expect they are useful
   in general

   ivan: ivan the elder
   ... W3C semweb activity lead
   ... 2nd contact

   yimin: working in lilly singapore
   ... working on data integration projects in lilly
   ... looking for insert/delete, stuff like that

   souri: Souri Das, Oracle
   ... was part of DAWG. passionate about it as i expect it to be useful
   for DI in general

liaisons

   LeeF, we might want a tracker intro under logistics

   <LeeF> ericP, yes, i agree, but am not prepared to do it at the moment
   :)

   AxelPolleres: liasons are supposed to connect us with other groups
   touching our work
   ... need liasons with three W3C groups:

   <bijan> XQuery?

   AxelPolleres: .. OWL
   ... .. RIF
   ... .. RDB2RDF

   <bijan> HCLS interest group

   AxelPolleres: any other suggestions?
   ... would like liason status update at beginnings of meetings

   <bijan> I think it's overkill to do it each telecon...generally,
   there's fewer occasions to mention

   RESOLUTION: Bijan appointed OWL liason

   <iv_an_ru> Orri and I are in RDB2RDF

   <AxelPolleres> Bijan: additional liaison XQuery?

   <bijan> +1 to eric for liasing with HCLS

   RESOLUTION: ericP appointed HCLS liason

   RESOLUTION: orri appointed RDB2RDF liason

   RESOLUTION: axel appointed RIF liason

   <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say i have good contact with HCLS

   <AxelPolleres> Should we "advertise" to them? maybe someone was
   interested to join us, at least to follow?

   <AndyS> XQuery are also working on full text search

   but i was locally muted

   <AndyS> s/arealoo/are also/

   ericP: expect that we will need to touch XQuery if we import more XPath
   functions

F2F

   LeeF: most folks have tougher travel restrictions than in the past

   <iv_an_ru> we will need to touch XQuery if we extend XQuery with SPARQL
   :)

   LeeF: don't expect to have our four meetings this year
   ... hope to have a f2f a couple months from now when we settle on our
   deliverables

   PROPOSED: host first f2f 5-6May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon
   sites may be amendmants)

   <bijan> tues are potentially bad

   <AndyS> May 6,7 is preferrable to me as well. Can make May 5 if
   necessary

   <bijan> I can't do tues easily

   <AxelPolleres> eric: rooms might be a problem 7-8

   <bijan> 2 days

   <chimezie> +1 2 days

   <ywang4> 2 days should be fine

   <SteveH> +1 2 days

   <ivan> 2 days (it is hard to keep up work of that intensity for 3 days)

   <souri2> May 6-7 is better for me. 2 days.

   <AndyS> 2 days unless it is clear 3 is needed

   <bijan> Can't do the 5th

   <bijan> (most likely)

   <AxelPolleres> no preference

   <ywang4> okay, i can try to adapt

   <iv_an_ru> My US visa has expired so I'm probably missing the f2f.

   <AxelPolleres> let's tentatively fix 6-7 shall we also set up a
   questionaire?

   <SteveH> +q to ask about multi site

   <ivan> no

   <bijan> I think chairs decision is fine

   <Zakim> SteveH, you wanted to ask about multi site

   <bijan> As long as it's announced far enough in advance...8 weeks

   <AndyS> I can ask our comms people about a telecon link

   <bijan> I can ask about access grid access

   <LeeF> Pick other (U.K. / Europe?) site in the next week or two, please
   send possibilities to mailing list

   PROPOSED: host first f2f 6-7May in Cambridge, MA, USA -- (other telecon
   sites may be amendmants)

   <souri2> What will be the hours for F2F?

   <AxelPolleres> [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1

   <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to mention video room availability

   <bijan> Manchester has a room

   <bijan> HP has one...I've seen it :)

use cases

   <iv_an_ru> use case 1: TPC-H

   <iv_an_ru> (we pass it in SPARQL :)

   LeeF: 1st phase: define what features we want to work on
   ... we're bound to 18 months, including spec, tests, impl report
   ... likely a very small set. need to settle on them in the next month

   <AxelPolleres> Please indicate your availability for F2F1 on the wiki
   page: [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1

   LeeF: we're blurring the line between use case and feature
   ... e.g. "peform aggregate functions", "query over arbitrary length
   tasks"
   ... we're not aiming for higher-level use cases, � la "Bob runs a
   stereo store..."
   ... looking for examples, implementations

   <iv_an_ru> use case 2: a graph with Gantt chart, personal calendars and
   some trivial validation.

   LeeF: need a champions who will speak in depth about the feature

   bijan: would we do one req, or stagger them?

   LeeF: should we write todo list or a priority list?

   bijan: i like getting things done
   ... but there's value publicity of a slew of things
   ... but if we can get stuff out

   AndyS: knocking off some easy ones would get the community engaged

   <bijan> +1 to AndyS

   <SteveH> +1 to AndyS

   AndyS: i like to work on one thing at a time, and do it properly

   ivan: short charter, and rec process takes time and energy
   ... publishing several things in a staggered way could backfire
   ... bijan, is the idea to pub sparql1,1, 1,2, 1.3?

   <AxelPolleres>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/01/sparql-charter.html#deliverables

   <iv_an_ru> +q

   bijan, was wondering if we could modularize parts into specs.

   scribe: e.g. separate owl semantics spec

   <bijan> The HTML5 spec indicates the stability levels of different
   *sections* of the spec...which might be good for implementors

   LeeF: modularizing sounds great, if we can modularize ourselves

   <AndyS> +1 to modularization (if it does not cause rework just for
   modulrity)

   <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to answer

   ericP: could modularize sections, do tests and impl reports, and
   package as a spec when we get near the end

   AxelPolleres: use cases should identify which spec they affect (e.g.
   protocol, xml results format)
   ... we've listed deliverables in the charter. we're not bound to that?

   LeeF: nope. our deliverables will fall out from our use cases

   iv_an_ru: not sure the final doc should be a single spec, e.g.
   SPARQL1.1
   ... they [features] are more useful when used together
   ... when i need business intelligence, i need it on everything

   <ivan> +1 to iv_an_ru

   LeeF: don't expect us to break up core parts

   <Zakim> SteveH, you wanted to ask about terminology

   <bijan> The spec shouldn't have everything it but neither should it be
   the minimal publishable unit

   LeeF: don't want to lose interop if all these features are on their own
   specs

   <bijan> Rightsizing!

   SteveH: do we want use cases?

   <bijan> New features + rationale?

   SteveH: am nagged by calling features "use cases"

   <iv_an_ru> yes!

   SteveH: just want to call them what they are

   <chimezie> then perhaps we should be a little more explicit in the
   request for what we want (usecase v.s. feature request)

   <bijan> (The OWL document is called "new features and rationales"

   LeeF: agreed. would like to dive straight into features

   SteveH: when we prioritize, we'll talk about use cases, regardless of
   whether we write them down

   <AndyS> While features are natural/obvious this is OK but if one comes
   along which the WG as a whole finds unobvious, we need to back off to
   use cases.

   <LeeF> +1 to AndyS_

   <SteveH> +1

   AxelPolleres: template rationale: thought the features we want to add
   should be driven by practical examples

   <iv_an_ru> use cases should be written down at least in our wiki, if
   not in final docs, because they demonstrate how features
   "interoperate".

   <bijan> Use cases doesn't exhaust...e.g., implementability are also
   considerations

   AxelPolleres: had in mind to merge use cases in the 2nd phase
   ... good feature requests often have a use case around them

   <iv_an_ru> Let's think that everything is implementable :)

   <bijan> So, new feature: "Awesome feature"; rationale: "here's the
   intuition", "here's the implementation considerations", "here's some
   use cases"

   AxelPolleres: if you a system with .e.g aggregates, add you syntax to
   that feature

   <bijan> Are we all registered in the wiki? If not what do we do?

   <SteveH> +1 to calling the features and having a usecase subsection

   LeeF: let's call them features (tweak the template), add a section for
   use cases under each feature, and have example syntaxes for the feature

   <LukeWM> +1 to that too

   <ywang4> will go offline shortly, have fun :)

   APPROVED: rename "use cases" to "features"

   <bijan> Did I miss the in

   <bijan> structiosn for getting on the wiki?

   <bijan> Oh. Ewwwww

   <LeeF> I'll send a bunch about this in email

   <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about outside contributions

   AndyS: what about folks who are not in the group, but plan to join
   ... ?

   LeeF: would like folks to send to public-rdf-dawg-comments

   <bijan> +1 to open solicitation

   <SteveH> risks a lot of work sorting out duplicates

   AndyS: danger of opening floodgate

   <SteveH> but still +1

   <bijan> We can always say "no" :)

   <LeeF> I'll take the responsibility for sorting out dupes :-)

   <bijan> No specification without championiation!

   <iv_an_ru> We can invite people to read the wiki before (re)submitting
   proposals :)

   <LeeF> iv_an_ru +1

   <AxelPolleres> heavy echo

   <bijan> ta ta

   <AxelPolleres> scribenick: AxelPolleres

   Ivan: we can allow input from those who intend to join.

   Lee: Will sned an email on the list to gather as many features as we
   can by next week.

   <iv_an_ru> Even more, implementation providers may announce in their
   support mailing lists that they collect wishes for SPARQL 2.0 and act
   as proxies.

   <AndyS> SPARQL 1.1 please. Not 2.0. It's incremental!

   Lee: Is it appropriate to list that on the blog as well.

   <SteveH> +1 to SPARQL 1.1

   Ivan: sure.

   <iv_an_ru> ok, SPARQL 1.1

   Ivan: Next week will be messy, since meeting is one hour earlier!!!

   <SteveH> bye

   meeting adjourned

   <LeeF> AxelPolleres, do you want to try to follow the scribe
   instructions, or would you like me to?

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: LeeF to see if the SPARQL tracker is setup correctly
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________________


    Minutes formatted by David Booth's [18]scribe.perl version 1.133 (
    [19]CVS log)
    $Date: 2009/03/03 16:26:38 $

References

   1. http://www.w3.org/
   2. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2009-03-03
   3. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-irc
   4. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-02-24
   5. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#agenda
   6. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#item01
   7. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#item02
   8. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#item03
   9. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#item04
  10. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#item05
  11. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes#ActionSummary
  12. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki
  13. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Scribe_List
  14. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1
  15. http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F1
  16. http://www.w3.org/2009/01/sparql-charter.html#deliverables
  17. http://www.w3.org/2009/03/03-sparql-minutes.html#action01
  18. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
  19. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

-- 
-eric

office: +1.617.258.5741 32-G528, MIT, Cambridge, MA 02144 USA
mobile: +1.617.599.3509

(eric@w3.org)
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