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minutes RDF Data Access 9 May for review

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 11:05:20 -0500
To: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <1147190720.22658.175.camel@dirk.w3.org>

hypertext: http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes

plain text:
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        RDF Data Access Weekly

9 May 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0076.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          EricP, Kendall_Clark, DanC, PatH, AndyS_, Souri, SteveH

   Regrets
          libby, Lee, Elias, Jos, Jeen

   Chair
          Kendall

   Scribe
          DanC

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]convene
         2. [6]future meeting times
         3. [7]JSON results format status
         4. [8]punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicates
         5. [9]valueTesting
         6. [10]test suite maintenance
         7. [11]comments on RIF use cases
         8. [12]mime type issues
         9. [13]punctuationSyntax, \u escapes
     * [14]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

convene

   <scribe> Scribe: DanC

   AFS: I sent a correction re # of actions...

   KC: I think this is the corrected version

   <DanC_> [15]minutes 18 Apr

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/att-0052/18-dawg-minutes.html

   RESOLUTION: to approve minutes 18 Apr

future meeting times

   KC: our scheduled time overlaps with RIF. it's not clear how much of
   an actual problem that is, but it's at least a potential problem.
   ... how about an hour earlier?

   <AndyS_> I'm happy to move -1 hour.

   DC: how about 9:30am Boston time, year round? [or at least over this
   summer]

   <AndyS_> (14:30 BST(GMTDT) , 13:30 GMT)

   hmm... 60, 90, or 120 minutes? weekly, every-other-week, or monthly?

   <AndyS_> CET is +1 hour to that.

   PatH: I lean toward frequent meetings and make them short if there's
   not much to do

   <SteveH> as long as the mail goes out I will rememebr to dial in

   PROPOSED: to meet Tuesdays 9:30am Boston time for 60 to 90 minutes,
   starting 16 May 2006 until further notice

   <SteveH> 2nd'd

   regrets ericp, afs for 16 May due to XTech

   RESOLUTION: to meet Tuesdays 9:30am Boston time for 60 to 90
   minutes, starting 30 May 2006 until further notice

   EricP to scribe 30 May

   post-hoc action added by the scribe and former chair...

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP: to notify adminreq of the change in meeting
   time [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

JSON results format status

   EricP: I expect to get this done tomorrow.

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to publish
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/ [CONTINUES]
   [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

     [17] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/

punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicates

   KC: I saw mail from Steve today

   DanC: looked for records re: disallowing bnodes in predicate
   position
   ... couldn't find any explicit decision to that effect
   ... As of 11 Nov, bnodes were in

   change was made in 1.629 2006/01/30 17:38:14

   patH: may have last come up under rdfSemantics issue

   <Souri> [19]suggestion from Pat to take it out

     [19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0305.html

   hmm... we RESOLVED "that SPARQL QL editor's draft 1.623 section 2.5
   addresses issue rdfSemantics and is sufficient to postpone issue
   owlDisjunction", and bnodes are out there.

   <kendall> SteveH: I remember discussion of this, colleagues suggest
   that the restriction is somewhat confusing

   <DanC_> I thnk I should edit the issues list to show that the 26 Jan
   decision re rdfSemantics also affects punctuationSyntax

   <kendall> DanC, I'd be happy for you to do that.

   SH: I'm getting feedback that prohibiting bnodes in Verb is
   inconvenient

   EricP: there's [something involving * that the scribe didn't really
   catch]

   AndyS: it would change the semantics...

   PatH: yes, it might work, but then it wouldn't work with OWL...
   ... but OWL might change in that direction too.

   SH: there are approved tests that are relevant

   AndyS: those tests don't test the semantics

   <scribe> ACTION: AndyS to find tests with bnodes in predicates and
   mark them as syntax errors (and unapproved until we approve them)
   [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: DanC to edit
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax to
   show ammendment 26 Jan
   [22]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/a
   tt-0298/26-dawg-minutes.html [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

     [21] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax
     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0298/26-dawg-minutes.html

   KC: how do we re-sync editors drafts with published TRs?

   DC: well, you can ask to do an updated CR, or go back to WD, or ask
   for PR

   <DanC_> [24], Test/grammar question Geoff Chappell (Thursday, 6
   April)

     [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0002.html

   <DanC_> (I see Andy answered him, though we haven't done the [OK?]
   dance. dunno if we need to.)

valueTesting

   <kendall> ACTION: Kendall to mark valueTesting as open on issues
   list (i.e., to really learn how to handle issues list) [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

   EricP: no progress; pls continue. eta 2 weeks

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < >
   = != boolean} to SPARQL [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

test suite maintenance

   DC: my action went to Andy in the last meeting.

   <AndyS_> ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests [CONTINUES]
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

   <AndyS_> ACTION: AndyS to contribute a couple tests for
   computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one using lists, and one
   not using lists [CONTINUES] [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

   yes, DONE, ACTION: EricP and Jeen to fix OPTIONAL coding

comments on RIF use cases

   KC: still interested?

   PatH: yes, still interested; no progress yet
   ... ah... 2 weeks is during WWW2006, so more like 30th

   <DanC_> [29]Sven's review of RIF Use Cases

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0039.html

   <kendall> ACTION: PatH to review RIF UC&R doc by roughly the 30th
   May [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

mime type issues

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to respond to [$1\47]Dirk on MIME type stuff
   [DONE] [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

   <ericP> [32]http://www.w3.org/mid/20060421165157.GI26709@w3.org

     [32] http://www.w3.org/mid/20060421165157.GI26709@w3.org

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to follow up on mime type requests, i.e. to
   ask the W3C/IETF liaison to do the registration [CONTINUES]
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action11]

   AFS: there's this stuff of \u escapes... ok, yes, separable from
   mime types

punctuationSyntax, \u escapes

   <AndyS_> [34]experience with \u escapes

     [34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0443.html

   AndyS: when do escape rules apply?

   <DanC_> (sounds like punctuationSyntax should get opened again
   around \u)

   <kendall> slow chair didn't follow much of that... hope someone did
   :)

   AFS: the layering between, e.g., \u and variable names is tricky;
   breaks traditional parser layering

   <DanC_> (I suggest you re-open punctuationSyntax to address comments
   re \u escapes, KC)

   <kendall> yeah, since that way I may figure out what the issue is.
   :>

   EricP: [something that sounded like a good test case, involving \u
   in quoted strings]

   <ericP> ASK { ?s ?p "hi \"mom\"" }

   <DanC_> >>> hex(ord('"'))

   <DanC_> '0x22'

   <ericP> ASK { ?s ?p "hi \u0022mom\u0022" }

   <kendall> Is that legal by the spec currently?

   <DanC_> (regardless of what the answer is, it clearly merits a test
   case)

   <kendall> yes

   AFS: yes, the spec gives an answer here, but one that is hard to
   implement

   PatH: indeed, I'd prefer that "hi \u0022mom\u0022" were treated as
   "hi "mom"" which is not cool

   EricP: this makes query generation a bit harder

   <AndyS_> Example: ?a\u0020x

   <kendall> it's obviously open IMO! :)

   KC: ok, punctuationSyntax is open.

   (anybody have a pointer to a relevant message from the comments
   achive?)

   <Souri> Question: Isn't "I said \"Hello World\"" a valid plain
   literal?

   <AndyS_>
   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0
   443.html

     [35] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0443.html

   <AndyS_> #Is this comment\u0020 legal

   <ericP> # \u000d SELECT ...

   AFS: consider the case of writing a query with kanji characters in
   variable names from a us-ascii keyboard

   <ericP> [36]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#escIRI

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#escIRI

   A.6 Escape sequences in IRI references, prefixed names and variable
   names

   <ericP> [[

   <ericP> These escape sequences are not included in the grammar
   below. Only escape sequences for characters that would be legal at
   that point in the grammar may be given. For example, the variable
   "?x\u0020y" is not legal (\u0020 is a space and is not permitted in
   a variable name).

   <ericP> \\

   <ericP> oh weak, no close bracket

   DanC: note while this \u stuff looks wierd, but it's the result of a
   negotiation with the I18N WG

   EricP: I'm more worried about backslashes in comments than [missed]

   REQUEST FOR TESTCASE [ # \u000d SELECT ... ]

   <scribe> ACTION: AndyS write tests for \u details [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action12]

   <AndyS_> NB // This is not legal Java \u because the \u is illegal

   <AndyS_> NB // This is legal Java \u0020

   <SteveH> bye

   <kendall> Do the bots need to be dismissed?

   not really; they get bored and wander off after a while

   <kendall> cool

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: AndyS to find tests with bnodes in predicates and mark
   them as syntax errors (and unapproved until we approve them)
   [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
   [NEW] ACTION: AndyS write tests for \u details [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: DanC to edit
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax to
   show ammendment 26 Jan
   [41]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/a
   tt-0298/26-dawg-minutes.html [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: EricP: to notify adminreq of the change in meeting
   time [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: Kendall to mark valueTesting as open on issues list
   (i.e., to really learn how to handle issues list) [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: PatH to review RIF UC&R doc by roughly the 30th May
   [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

     [40] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#punctuationSyntax
     [41] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0298/26-dawg-minutes.html

   [PENDING] ACTION: AndyS to contribute a couple tests for
   computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one using lists, and one
   not using lists [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action08]
   [PENDING] ACTION: AndyS: to draft of open-world = tests [recorded in
   [47]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
   [PENDING] ACTION: EricP to follow up on mime type requests, i.e. to
   ask the W3C/IETF liaison to do the registration [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action11]
   [PENDING] ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean <
   > = != boolean} to SPARQL [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: EricP to publish
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/ recorded in
   [51]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

     [50] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/

   [DONE] ACTION: EricP to respond to [$1\47]Dirk on MIME type stuff
   [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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-- 
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541  0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E
Received on Tuesday, 9 May 2006 16:05:31 GMT

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