W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-dawg@w3.org > January to March 2005

minutes RDF Data Access 29 Mar for review

From: Dan Connolly <connolly@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:40:55 -0600
To: RDF Data Access Working Group <public-rdf-dawg@w3.org>
Message-Id: <1112114455.32006.344.camel@localhost>
hypertext version...

 http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html
 $Revision: 1.8 $ of $Date: 2005/03/29 16:33:33 $

text version is attached

-- 
Dan Connolly, W3C http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
D3C2 887B 0F92 6005 C541  0875 0F91 96DE 6E52 C29E


   [1]W3C [2]RDF Data Access WG

      [1] http://www.w3.org/
      [2] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/

                     RDF Data Access Weekly Teleconference

29 Mar 2005

   See also: [3]agenda, [4]IRC log

      [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0510.html
      [4] http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Kevin, Yoshio, DanC, BryanT, AndyS, EricP, Kendall_Clark, PatH,
          JanneS

   Regrets
          DaveB, SteveH, JosD

   Chair
          DanC

   Scribe
          EricP

Contents

     * [5]Topics
         1. [6]Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
         2. [7]Use Cases and Requirements publication
         3. [8]issue: sort
         4. [9]issue: valueTesting
         5. [10]SPARQL QL LC Candidate
         6. [11]privacy section for protocol spec
         7. [12]issue: wsdlAbstractProtocol, fromUnionQuery
         8. [13]issue: xmlAbstractSyntax
     * [14]Summary of Action Items

     _________________________________________________________________



Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

   <DanC> Scribe: EricP

   RESOLVED to ammend [15]MInutes of the 2005-03-22 RDF DAWG
   teleconference for review with [16]action tracking notes and accept it
   as a true record

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0472.html
     [16] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0520.html

   <DanC> ACTION: DaveB to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from
   Steer [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

   <scribe> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on
   op:dateTime triple [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test
   results page [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: SteveH to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background"
   and named graphs [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [recorded
   in [21]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

   <scribe> ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous to
   valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

   <scribe> ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG
   Note (no deadline/urgency) [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

   ALL CONTINUED without discussion

   <DanC> next meeting: 5 Apr...

   <DanC> then let's do meet 5 Apr, KC to scribe.

   <AndyS> Regrets for next week (April 5)

   regrets 2 week hence: EricP, DaveB, SteveH

   plus, AndyS, if i recall his vacation schedule

   <Yoshio> I think there is considarable concern on XML serialization of
   the resutl (<mail> vs. <var name="mail"> issue)

   We didn't discuss that due to DaveB's absence and lack of time.

Use Cases and Requirements publication

   <scribe> DONE: KC, AFS, EP to publish usecases 1.148 + revision to
   2.18 by KC, reviewed by AFS, plus editorial fixups by KC, ok'd by
   EricP

   <scribe> DONE: [24]http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-dawg-uc-20050325/
   and [25]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases is back to
   editor's draft status 1.158

     [24] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-dawg-uc-20050325/
     [25] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases

   <DanC> "We invite feedback on which features are required for a first
   version of SPARQL and which should be postponed in order to expedite
   deployment of others." --
   [26]http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-dawg-uc-20050325/

     [26] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-dawg-uc-20050325/

   <scribe> DONE: Kendall to To rewrite 2.18: change the title, don't
   motivate "update", spell "WSDL" correctly. :>

   <scribe> DONE: [27]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases 1.149

     [27] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases

issue: sort

   <scribe> ACTION: PatH to review sort design in 2 weeks [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action10]

   <DanC> 1.278 [29]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/

   andy believes he has reached a quiescient (SP?) state

   <scribe> DONE: Kevin to review sort design at earliest convenience
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action11]

   [31]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/048
   3.html

     [31] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0483.html

   <Yoshio> quiescent

   <AndyS> Google :: define:quiescent => "refers to a state of resting,
   inactivity or latency"

   <AndyS> Also "A volcano, which is not active, but is still registering
   seismic activity." :-)

   <thompsonbry> How could we extend from lexical comparison to achieve
   value comparison in a subsequent design?

   Kevin: I pointed out a few issues (consistency with distinct and a few
   others)
   ... Thought the interest was in ORDER BY and LIMIT, which is doable
   with LEXICAL sort

   Andy, lexical ordering doesn't neccesarily give you total ordering

   Kevin: we could have a future syntax for value ordering

   <Yoshio> I think the problem is that data could be gathered from
   various sources, where the data type are different

   Andy: my pref is to go with value ordering (what people expect)
   ... we can do lexical sort with str(?foo)

   <thompsonbry> Andy, how does typing interact with functions to specify
   how a value sort will be applied?

   DanC: we can also postpoine... no takers.

   <AndyS> See doc : can write "ORDER BY x:func(?x)" as a (partial)
   ordering

issue: valueTesting

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points
   for test cases, to EricP or others) [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action12]

   <scribe> CONTINUED. expect to meet end of month deadline

   action -10

   <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about !=

   <DanC> (I suspect "error" is misleading terminology... "unkown" might
   communicate the notion better)

   EricP: how do people feel about requiring explicity casts where XQuery
   would not require them?

   [ no probs with it ]

   #invocation

   #StandardOperations

   <Zakim> Yoshio, you wanted to ask if this applies to cases where there
   is no data for deciding the equality

   Yoshio: how about unknown equiv in sorting?

   PatH: how about we don't define it so folks don't rely on it.

   <Yoshio> me: even if they are of the same data type

   tx

   <Zakim> DanC, you wanted to ask if the "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe test
   is in the test suite, and ask for a volunteer if not and to reiterate
   suggestion about compliance and unknown

   AndyS: in SQL world, people do rely on the ordering and causes trouble

   <DanC> ACTION: AndyS to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action13]

SPARQL QL LC Candidate

   <scribe> ACTION: AndyS to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption
   [CONTINUED] [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action14]

   <scribe> ... pending discussion with Bob and Jess

   Geoff

   tx

   <Yoshio> I'm for construct *

   <scribe> DONE: AndyS to explain how to get a whole graph with
   CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH. [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action15]

   <kendall> long conversation sorta put me off attending to it
   carefully, sorry :>

   <AndyS> It's not CONSTRUCT * but there is "Accessing Graphs in the RDF
   Dataset"

   <DanC> "Accessing Graphs in the RDF Dataset" --
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#construct

     [36] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#construct

   <scribe> DONE , above pointer

   action -14

   <kendall> (hmm, another reason for a getGraph in the protocol is for
   implementations taht don't support construct at all.)

   <scribe> ACTION: DaveB to consider dots in qnames, report on impact on
   turtle [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action16]

   AndyS: won't get rid of all the todos by thur.
   ... which way do you want it?

   <kendall> it's by-invitation only, so Eric's trying to be respectful
   of that. :>

   <kendall> it was scheduled a long time ago, btw

   <thompsonbry> Dan, since Andy will be pulling hair for the 31st, why
   don't we just back the candidate for review by another week -
   especially since we have one meeting canceled.

   <DanC> ACTION: DanC to review editors draft (delivered 31 Mar) by 5
   Apr [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action17]

   <DanC> Kendall expects Bijan to review it

   <DanC> ACTION: EricP to notify the WG of editors draft (or change of
   plans) by 31 Mar [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action18]

   DanC: Andy, anything test that does not have a clear outcome is
   critical path

privacy section for protocol spec

   <scribe> ACTION: EricP to propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL
   protocol [DONE] [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action20]

   <DanC> ACTION: KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy text, salting
   to taste [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action19]

issue: wsdlAbstractProtocol, fromUnionQuery

   <DanC>
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol

     [42] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol

   <kendall> "wsdl interfaces" better than "abstract protocol", but
   -shrug-

   KendallC: happy with the WSDL except some bits of WSDL 2.0 that I
   don't know how to spell
   ... have carefully tried to document a non-researchy interface

   <kendall> don't know how to spell *yet* :>

   <DanC> "(SPARQLQuery and SPARQLDiscovery and SPARQLQueryAndDiscovery)"

   <DanC> SPARQLQuery SPARQLSaddle SPARQLQS

   <kendall> SPARQLQuery -> SparqlQuery; SPARQLDiscovery -> SparqlSaddle;
   SPARQLQueryAndDiscovery -> SparqlQS

   KendallC: total of 8 interfaces

   <DanC> OPTIONS: all 5 primary (total 8), 3 SPARQLQuery SPARQLSaddle
   SPARQLQS, other (none, something else)

   KendallC: 5 primative interfaces and 3 unions of them

   <kendall> 5 primary, 4 "derived interfaces

   <DanC> OPTIONS: all 5 primary (total 9), 3 SPARQLQuery SPARQLSaddle
   SPARQLQS, other (none, something else)

   <DanC> Zakim who's on the phone?

   <thompsonbry> Do we have a mapping of these interfaces onto the use
   cases?

   AndyS: interested in 3. don't know how datasets work in this proposal

   <kendall> ooh, yoshio makes a good point. thanks. have a mispelling.

   Kevin: nothign to say, not at boston

   Yoshio: nothing to say

   DanC: in favor of 3

   BryanT: want to interface to create and drop graphs

   EricP: 3

   KendallC: pass

   PatH: pass

   Janne: originally wanted lots of primitives. now want minimal set. 3.

   KendallC: (unpassing) i remember 3 getting the most support in BOS.
   Graph retrieval has support to go to its own interface.

   DanC: JaceK pointed out an existing interface and the room got quiet.

   tx

   KendallC: not making a pitch for the derived interfaces. just thought
   they were a nice organisational tool.

   <thompsonbry> Own what issue?

   <scribe> ACTION: KendallC to own WSDL interfaces. [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action21]

   action -20

   <JanneS> (I have to run for tonight - cheers)

   <scribe> ACTION: KendallC to add WSDL description of protocol to
   editor's draft, propose to WG. [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action22]

   <DanC> make sure it includes wsdlAbstractProtocol

   action -21

issue: xmlAbstractSyntax

   <scribe> ACTION: KendallC to tie WSDL description
   (wsdlAbstractProtocol) of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG.
   [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action23]

   <DanC>
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#xmlAbstractSyntax

     [46] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#xmlAbstractSyntax

   <DanC> [47]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/sparqlx.xsd

     [47] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/sparqlx.xsd

   <DanC> [48]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/sparqlx.rnc

     [48] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/sparqlx.rnc

   <DanC> [49]http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/sparqlx.rng

     [49] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/sparqlx.rng

   scribe is losing connectivity

   notes at risk

   <DanC> # SPARQL Abstract Syntax Seaborne, Andy (Monday, 21 March)
   [50]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/039
   3.html

     [50] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0393.html

   <DanC> sparqlx.rnc 1.6 makes sense to me, i think

   KendallC: wasn't going to invest much work if it was not likely to
   gain support

   PatH: what are the design goals of the XML serialization?

   DanC: making two contrete syntaxes makes the abstract syntax clear
   ... in web services, the input in defined by XS datatypes.

   <AndyS> <> rdfs:seeAlso [51]http://www.w3.org/TR/xqueryx/

     [51] http://www.w3.org/TR/xqueryx/

   [plus, i keep getting hints that my connectivity is at risk]

   <AndyS> FWIW I didn't make the abstract syntax obvious because there
   was only one concrete syntax

   BryanT: how coupled is the human syntax to the X-syntax

   <kendall> oh, also, another design goal is to not worry overly about
   being able to roundtrip from surface syntax to xml and back -- hence,
   no PREFIX in the XML.

   Andy: change from RDQL to N3 syntax did not impact the abstract syntax

   [missing all voice now]

   can i get a substitute scribe?

   <DanC> ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in
   sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action24]

   ADJOUNRED

Summary of Action Items

   [CONTINUED] ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases (analagous
   to valueTesting test cases) (don't expect quick delivery) [recorded in
   [53]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
   [NEW] ACTION: AndyS to propose a test re "x"^^mytype != "y"^^mytpe
   [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action13]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on
   op:dateTime triple [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: DanC to review editors draft (delivered 31 Mar) by 5 Mar
   [recorded in
   [56]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action17]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: DaveB to consider dots in qnames, report on impact
   on turtle [recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action16]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: DaveB to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment
   from Steer [recorded in
   [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve
   [recorded in
   [59]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
   [NEW] ACTION: EricP to notify the WG of editors draft (or change of
   plans) by 31 Mar [recorded in
   [60]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action18]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: EricP to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test
   results page [recorded in
   [61]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: EricP to propose to close valueTesting (bonus
   points for test cases, to EricP or others) [recorded in
   [62]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action12]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: KendallC to own wsdlAbstractProtocol (based on
   WSDL description added to protocol to editor's draft). [recorded in
   [63]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action22]
   [NEW] ACTION: KendallC to incorporate EricP's privacy text, salting to
   taste [recorded in
   [64]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action19]
   [NEW] ACTION: KendallC to work out remaining details in
   sparqlx.{rnc,xsd,rng}: expression syntax, order-by stuff [recorded in
   [65]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action24]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: PatH to review sort design in 2 weeks [recorded in
   [66]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action10]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: SteveH to prepare test cases for publication as WG
   Note (no deadline/urgency) [recorded in
   [67]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
   [CONTINUED] ACTION: SteveH to to revise test manifest w.r.t.
   "background" and named graphs [recorded in
   [68]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

   [PENDING] ACTION: AndyS to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption
   [recorded in
   [69]http://www.w3.org/2005/03/29-dawg-minutes.html#action14]

   [End of minutes]

     _________________________________________________________________


    EricP, scribe
    DanC, chair
    $Revision: 1.8 $ of $Date: 2005/03/29 16:33:33 $
    minutes formatted by David Booth's [70]scribe.perl

     [70] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Tuesday, 29 March 2005 16:40:57 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 26 March 2013 16:15:22 GMT