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RE: namespace nodes

From: Kay, Michael <Michael.Kay@softwareag.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:37:12 +0200
Message-ID: <DFF2AC9E3583D511A21F0008C7E62106073DD0B7@daemsg02.software-ag.de>
To: Per Bothner <per@bothner.com>, "Kay, Michael" <Michael.Kay@softwareag.com>
Cc: public-qt-comments@w3.org
> > The terms "active" and "passive" only refer to namespaces 
> declared in
> > the query. They are properties of namespaces in the static 
> context, not 
> > properties of namespace nodes in the data model.
> The section seems very "specialized".  What if you have an 
> existing element node (either from an input document or a 
> previously-constructed
> element) that needs to be copied because it is in a content 
> expression? It would need to get namespace nodes from both 
> the enclosed constructor (active namespaces), as well as any 
> previously existing namespace nodes. But the section doesn't 
> cover this, even though it seems like the same 
> issue, and that's what is weird to me.

The issue is related, but not the same. The rule for what happens when you
copy an element from a source document is given in section, list
item 1(d): the element is copied together with all its namespace nodes. It
doesn't lose any, and it doesn't gain any.

This means that if you do:

let $a := <A/>
let $b := <B xmlns:boo="boo.uri">{$a}</B>

then you will end up with a tree in which B has a namespace node for
boo=boo.uri, but its child A does not have a corresponding namespace node.
The data model explicitly permits this. This anticipates the change in XML
Namespaces 1.1, whereby a namespace that is in-scope for one element can be
"undeclared" on its child elements. A serializer that produces XML 1.0 from
this data model will not round-trip correctly, because it cannot undeclare
the namespace on the child element, but this is unlikely to be a problem in
> > Is your problem with the section as a whole, or with
> > the non-normative note that you are quoting?
> The section as a whole.
> > Or would you like to see more variation allowed between 
> > implementations
>  > in the outcome (the observable result of the query)?
> No, I don't think so, though I am concern taht it only 
> discusses immediately construcxted nodes, not copied nodes, 
> or nodes in source documents.
> It's like if a specification for printf explained in detail 
> how to format even integers but completely ignored odd integers.

We actually decided that the question of what namespaces were attached to a
newly constructed element were pretty well orthogonal to the question of
what namespaces were attached to a copied element. It was actually by
breaking up these questions and deciding them independently of each other
that we managed to make progress on this. I agree that the result is that
the text is somewhat fragmented (there's nothing that gives the total
picture in one place), but I think the pieces are all there. 
> > One feature of the rules we have defined is that the decisions about
> > which namespaces to add to a constructed element can all be made at 
> > compile time.
> You know their existence, but not their prefix or namespace 
> at compile time.  You have to check for duplications are 
> run-time. You don't know which prefixes are shadowed by other 
> prefixes.

Actually, 3.7.4 says that a new element gets namespace nodes from two

(a) the active in-scope namespaces from the static context. These are known
at compile-time (once we've fixed the problem with dynamic namespace

(b) namespace nodes are created corresponding to the name of the element and
of its attributes (XSLT calls this process "namespace fixup"). These are not
necessarily known at compile time, and yes, this requires run-time
evaluation. (I think that most XSLT processors don't actually store these
namespace nodes as separate objects: their existence can be represented by
holding the assigned namespace prefix within the element or attribute node).

Checking for duplication and shadowing (between an element and its
ancestors) is not part of the tree construction process, it is part of
serialization. It doesn't affect the namespace nodes present on the result
tree, it only affects the namespace declarations in the serialized output.
Of course, an implementation may merge these phases and do them together.

Michael Kay

>  > So I think it is possible to implement it efficiently. The
> > area where implementations have scope to be clever is in optimizing 
> > the
> > two stage process (create namespace nodes for each element, then 
> > eliminate duplicates while serializing) so that unneeded 
> namespace nodes 
> > are never created. As with other aspects of query 
> optimization, I don't 
> > think the spec should discuss that.
> Fair enough, though I'd add a "Note: Namespace nodes are part 
> of the data model only; XQuery does not provide any way to 
> get at a namespace node".
> > I think we should probably restrict the term "in-scope 
> namespaces" to
> > the case where we are talking about the static context in 
> > XPath/XQuery/XSLT, and speak in terms of the namespace nodes of an 
> > element when we are discussing the data model. Although the InfoSet 
> > speaks of the "in-scope namespaces" of an element, we don't 
> use this 
> > term in describing our data model, and therefore we probably should 
> > avoid using it in F&O.
> Seems reasonable.
> -- 
> 	--Per Bothner
> per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/
Received on Wednesday, 27 August 2003 12:37:18 UTC

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