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Re: [pwg] 2018-03-12 Minutes

From: Xu, Zheng | KGB <zheng.xu@rakuten.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:35:13 +0000
To: Peter Krautzberger <peter@krautzource.com>
CC: "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>, W3C Publishing Working Group <public-publ-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <SG2PR0301MB134964C32F30A5794E8D73089AD20@SG2PR0301MB1349.apcprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Hi Peter

Thanks for clarification.

Gonna read more about CG and CG minutes today.

Would be very appreciate if can help me to get in touch with MathJax team.

One of the typical performance issue as far as I can see is MathJax start to layout after UA done with it. Then it would cause a second layout and re-patination.

I personally believe Math related layout need to be done during browser layout and rendering process. That is why so far I lean on resolve math related layout in spec/UA layer. But I am very happy to have any advice to help resolve or improve Math related issue.



From: Peter Krautzberger <peter@krautzource.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 3:32:23 AM
To: Xu, Zheng | KGB
Cc: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken; W3C Publishing Working Group
Subject: Re: [pwg] 2018-03-12 Minutes

Hi Zheng,

I'm the co-chair of the MathOnWeb CG. Some inline comments.

> And it seems on halt (https://w3c.github.io/mathonwebpages/research/text_based_standards.html).

That's a misunderstanding. The link points to a specific task force within the CG which is currently inactive (for lack of developer interest).

The MathOnWeb CG is currently focusing on identifying improvements to CSS that help existing equation rendering solutions (including those digesting MathML). We also work on accessibility issues relates to mathematical content.

As oppposed to anything related to MathML, both of these topics are actually active areas of development and research across various projects and organization, many of which are open source.

> About community group (https://w3c.github.io/mathonwebpages/) I am not sure how much will CP effect on both spec and UA implementation.

It is true that the CG is not concerned with MathML; then again, no CG has the relevant standing. Historically, the CG started while the MathWG was still active thus MathML was obviously out of scope.

If you study the CG's minutes you might find that most of the active CG members do not consider MathML a viable solution for the web, neither for visual rendering nor for accessibility purposes. SVG, CSS and ARIA are better suited for these purposes.

Since I used to manage the MathJax project (and helped with Readium's implementation of MathJax), I'd encourage you and any other rendering system to get in touch with the MathJax team; I'm happy to make introductions. There are many ways around current performance issues and MathJax v3 (currently in alpha) will also greatly improve performance and integration.

Best regards,

2018-03-12 20:00 GMT+01:00 Xu, Zheng | KGB <zheng.xu@rakuten.com<mailto:zheng.xu@rakuten.com>>:

Thanks Tzviya

Was struggling with my microphone during the meeting, apologize. At last mins found a working one 😊

About MathML support I just added comment to #72 https://github.com/w3c/wpub/issues/72#issuecomment-372391707

The reason I was hoping this WG could lead some work to let UA support MathML is

  1.  Better support needs a leader from spec perspective. It's not just a implementation problem of UA (don't think fundraising of implementation could easily resolve this problem) It need spec change to let UA easily adapt it to UA software design.
  2.  About community group (https://w3c.github.io/mathonwebpages/) I am not sure how much will CP effect on both spec and UA implementation. And it seems on halt (https://w3c.github.io/mathonwebpages/research/text_based_standards.html).

What I hope our WG (including me) can do is

  1.  conversation with UA to see what's problem preventing from UA to implement MathML
  2.  create some task force or maybe investigation report at first to tackle Mathimetics support of UA

As vendor of reading system we have seen so many publishers provided us a large amount of content with MathML and many publishers asked us for MathML support situation of UA. I wanted to emphasis that there is a big amount of epub currently using MathML or need mathematics support of reading system. And currently the option we have such as MathJax could not satisfy requirement especially performance.



From: Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <tsiegman@wiley.com<mailto:tsiegman@wiley.com>>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 2:37:26 PM
To: W3C Publishing Working Group
Subject: [pwg] 2018-03-12 Minutes

Hi All,

Minutes: https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/Meetings/Minutes/2018/2018-03-12-minutes.html

Summary: https://www.w3.org/blog/2018/03/publishing-wg-telco-2018-03-12-f2f-planning-issue-tracking/


Tzviya Siegman

Information Standards Lead




Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2018 10:35:47 UTC

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