W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > September 2012

Re: Primary Source again (Re: PROV-ISSUE-518: Data Model Section 5.2.4 ) [prov-dm]

From: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 16:00:24 +0100
Message-ID: <50646A08.2080802@ninebynine.org>
To: Luc Moreau <l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
CC: Stephan Zednik <zednis@rpi.edu>, public-prov-wg@w3.org
I find this revision of Stephan's phrasing to be confusing, even contradictory. 
  "a primary source is a derivation" seems a bit oxymoronic to me.

#g
--


On 25/09/2012 17:57, Luc Moreau wrote:
> HI Stephan,
>
> I would just drop "relation" (because we define the concept) and "represents":
>
> A primary source is a derivation from an entity that was produced by some agent
> with direct experience and knowledge about the entity's conceptual topic, at the
> time of the topic's study, without benefit of hindsight.
>
> Luc
>
> On 09/25/2012 05:48 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>> How is this?
>>
>> A primary source relation represents a derivation from an entity that was
>> produced by some agent with direct experience and knowledge about the entity's
>> conceptual topic, at the time of the topic's study, without benefit of hindsight.
>>
>> --Stephan
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2012, at 3:41 AM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> How do we address this issue?
>>> The current definition is:
>>>
>>> Aprimary source^◊ <http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#concept-primary-source> for
>>> a topic refers to something produced by some agent with direct experience and
>>> knowledge about the topic, at the time of the topic's study, without benefit
>>> from hindsight.
>>>
>>> I wonder whether the wording 'refers to' is suitable here. We don't mean
>>> 'is', but 'a derivation from'. Would this address the concern?
>>>
>>> Luc
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/09/2012 09:46, Provenance Working Group Issue Tracker wrote:
>>>> PROV-ISSUE-518: Data Model Section 5.2.4 [prov-dm]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/518
>>>>
>>>> Raised by: Luc Moreau
>>>> On product: prov-dm
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/LC_Feedback#Data_Model_Section_5.2.4
>>>>
>>>> ISSUE-463
>>>>
>>>> The definition of a "primary source" implies that it is an entity when in
>>>> fact the term qualifies the role that a given entity plays during the
>>>> creation of a new entity, not the derivation itself. This might seem to be a
>>>> minor point, but it is clearly different from both revision and quotation,
>>>> both of which could be used when deriving a new entity from an entity used
>>>> as a primary source.
>>>>
>>>> It is also important to note that a given entity might be a primary source
>>>> for one entity but not another ("primary source" is context-dependent).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Professor Luc Moreau
>>> Electronics and Computer Science tel: +44 23 8059 4487
>>> University of Southampton fax: +44 23 8059 2865
>>> Southampton SO17 1BJ email:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
>>> United Kingdomhttp://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
>>>
>>
>
Received on Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:27:40 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:27:41 GMT