W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-prov-wg@w3.org > May 2012

Re: provenance of provenance

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:40:04 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|0c07d4f3b3aa1ded0190ff7894efc8d1o4GFe708L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4FB50DC4.9080909@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: public-prov-wg@w3.org
Hi Satya,

Response below.

On 05/16/2012 08:48 PM, Satya Sahoo wrote:
> Hi Luc,
>
> 0 for renaming accounts to bundle (fine either way)
> +1 for dropping hasAnnotation and Note
> +1 for using bundles as a construct for set of provenance assertions
>
> Comments on current description of bundles:
> 1. Why do we need to specify "A bundle's identifier id identifies a 
> unique set of descriptions." ? If an application does not require to 
> distinguish between two states of a bundle (e.g. a provenance 
> description in the bundle is modified/updated entity(ex:report1, 
> [viz:color="orange"]) to entity(ex:report1, [viz:color="red"])), why 
> should it be forced to generate a new id for every change in state?
>

In a sense, the approach is similar to Tim's approach 
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Using_graphs_to_model_Accounts,
where he was using a hash as the graph identifier. If the descriptions 
change, so does the hash. I think using hash is too strong
requirement, hence, we have regular identifiers.  (A secure version 
could use them).

If an application does not wish to distinguish between two bundles 
(note: a bundle does not have state!), ... then
it shouldn't produce bundles.  There is no requirement to generate bundles.

> 2. I am not sure why provenance location, a function for accessing 
> provenance and very often application/domain dependent, should be part 
> of DM? "A provenance locator is information that helps locate 
> provenance descriptions. It may identify a service, or may consist of 
> a URI where provenance descriptions can be found." What if location of 
> provenance of an entity or activity is written down as set of 
> instructions on file (or paper) - provenance of a car is located in a 
> file in the filing cabinet of manufacturer? In this case, the 
> application cannot use the currently defined hasProvenanceIn construct.

There is no claim that we covering all possible ways of accessing 
provenance. That's why we have attributes to allow other ways
to be expressed (you could encode there your instructions to find a 
paper for instance).

Luc

>
> Thanks.
>
> Best,
> Satya
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk 
> <mailto:L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     We are seeking feedback on text regarding bundles (allowing provenance
>     of provenance to be expressed).
>
>     http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd6-bundle.html
>
>     It is addressing ISSUES-257, ISSUE-260, ISSUE-88, ISSUE-297.
>     We will respond to these issues individually, shortly.
>
>     Cheers,
>     Luc
>
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Thursday, 17 May 2012 14:40:42 GMT

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