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Re: quick comment on Note in ProvRDF mapping

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 03:19:11 +0000
To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
CC: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <EMEW3|72c3d94a9fcc424801ad14e9efc1ebb2o1D3Ja08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|A312C4B0-D7C0-41FB-8585-598F9ABE6245@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Hi Tim,

What about this example in our working copy?
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/towards-wd4.html#term-note

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 14 Feb 2012, at 01:10, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu<mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:

Luc,

I'm glad to see that the trust annotation is still mentioned in DM, but I'm looking for an actual example of how Notes would be used in this manner.
It also mentions "visual representations" and gives two or three examples throughout the DM, which leads me to think that the primary intent of Notes is to sneak instructions to the visual layer.

If there are more compelling uses of Notes, I think an illustrative example would be very helpful.

Thanks,
Tim



On Feb 13, 2012, at 5:12 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:

Hi Tim,

Correction: introduction of section 5.2.4 [1] mentions trust service.

[1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#record-note

Luc

On 02/13/2012 06:02 AM, Luc Moreau wrote:
Hi Tim,
Sorry, I thought you meant motivation in general, as opposed to in the text.
This can be added if it helps the case.

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 13 Feb 2012, at 01:12, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu<mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:

Luc,

I can only find Note examples with visual styling ("dotted", "icons", etc).

Is there a "trust" Note example somewhere?

Thanks,
Tim

On Feb 12, 2012, at 5:29 PM, Luc Moreau wrote:

Hi Tim,
Yes we use such notes to also propagate "trust" information

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Southampton SO17 1BJ
United Kingdom

On 12 Feb 2012, at 20:54, "Timothy Lebo" <lebot@rpi.edu<mailto:lebot@rpi.edu>> wrote:

Is there motivation for Notes other than to sneak messages to the visual layer?


note(ann1,[ex:color="blue", ex:screenX=20, ex:screenY=30])

It seems to me that this is simply data modeling and NOT provenance modeling.
If it is _only_ data modeling, I think that it should stay out of PROV, which should focus on modeling only provenance.


Underneath the surface of Notes is the age old debate of "characterizing attributes" versus "non-characterizing attributes".

-Tim


On Feb 12, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Paul Groth wrote:

Of course you can use constructs however you want. I don't think Note was intended as such so it seems that discussing this usage would be out of scope.

Why confuse potential adopters of the spec?

Paul

On Feb 12, 2012, at 21:15, Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es<mailto:dgarijo@delicias.dia.fi.upm.es>> wrote:

There was some discussion on the prov-o team about this. "Note" could be used for describing provenance
statements in an informal way with custom annotations.
Therefore, IMO some people could use it for metadata provenance even if that is not the intention on DM.
For example: I could add annotations about all the usages (since the note is about a record) stating who is the author
of that assertion.
Thoughts?

Thanks,
Daniel

2012/2/12 Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl<mailto:p.t.groth@vu.nl>>
Hi,

I was just having a look through the ProvRDF mappings page: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvRDF

In the Note section there is a concern "but NOT for the much heavier-duty use that DM offers (meta-provenance)."

The DM does not use Note for meta provenance so I don't know where this is coming from.

cheers,
Paul






--
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk<mailto:l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Tuesday, 14 February 2012 03:21:24 GMT

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