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Re: PROV-ISSUE-29 (mutual-iVP-of): can two bobs be mutually "IVP of" each other [Conceptual Model]

From: Graham Klyne <graham.klyne@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:14:04 +0100
Message-ID: <4F7ABF5C.5080507@zoo.ox.ac.uk>
To: Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu>
CC: Tom De Nies <tom.denies@ugent.be>, Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>, Stian Soiland-Reyes <soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>, Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, James Cheney <jcheney@inf.ed.ac.uk>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
FWIW, I think it would be wrong to define specialization with FRBR concepts.

Let's take FRBR expression and manifestation:

- expression may be a particular performance of a musical composition.
- manifestation may be a recording reproduced on CD of that performance

I don't think it is coherent to claim that the recording is a specialization of 
the performance.  E.g. the performance takes place on a particular date.  That 
cannot be said of the CD.  Or the performance may have been produced by one 
agent, the CD by another.

I think similar considerations apply across the range of FRBR core concepts 
(work, expression, manifestation, item).

#g
--

On 02/04/2012 13:38, Timothy Lebo wrote:
>
> On Apr 2, 2012, at 4:53 AM, Tom De Nies wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> I had trouble understanding the reasoning of this example as well..
>> In our data model, the email would rather be a collection, and the signature an element of it, rather than a specialization of it.
>> A specialization of "this email" would be, for example. the "printed version on my desk", which is a specialization of "my thoughts on this email thread".
>>
>
> +1 (your phrasing is exactly what FRBR addresses; we're borrowing their notions to create a simpler form with atlOf and specOf)
>
>
>> Intuitively, I am having trouble coming up with a counterexample of the transitivity of our specialization.
>
> Me too.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom
>> ---
>> Tom De Nies
>> Ghent University - IBBT
>> Faculty of Engineering and Architecture
>> Department of Electronics and Information Systems - Multimedia Lab
>> Gaston Crommenlaan 8 bus 201, B-9050 Ledeberg-Ghent, Belgium
>>
>> t: +32 9 331 49 59
>> e: tom.denies@ugent.be
>>
>> URL:  http://multimedialab.elis.ugent.be
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/4/2 Luc Moreau<L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>>
>> is this example really reflecting specialisation? The signature is contained in the email message. Is it a specialisation of it?
>>
>> On 2 Apr 2012, at 00:11, "Stian Soiland-Reyes"<soiland-reyes@cs.manchester.ac.uk>  wrote:
>>
>>> My signature in the end of this email is a specialization of this
>>> email message, which is a specialization of my thoughts on this email
>>> thread. However the signature is not a specialization of those
>>> thoughts.
>>
>>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 3 April 2012 13:23:17 GMT

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