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Re: PROV-ISSUE-46 (where-is-D-in-provenance): Where do I find document D in provenance [Accessing and Querying Provenance]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:22:12 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|b5d64832dc94fd1a68b8d64dafc84ec3n6RFMI08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4E317094.8030307@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
CC: public-prov-wg@w3.org

Let's look at the problem conceptually first, and agree on the 
principles,  and in a second phase, let's see how to implement this.

Yes, I consider the case where we control the generation of the HTML.

I think we MAY embed in the HTML
- provenance-URI: the location for the provenance of this document
- BOB-URI: the identifier of the BOB that represents this document

Note 1: this may be BOB-URIs (since this document may be described by 
multiple BOBs)
Note 2: this may be provenance-URIs (since there may be multiple sources 
for the provenance)

If we are in agreement, we can look at ways of encoding this information.


On 07/28/2011 02:15 PM, Graham Klyne wrote:
> In the general case, if you don't control the generation of the HTML, 
> it's the same problem as an image.  There's nothing more we can do.
> If you do control generation of the HTML, then <link> can give you the 
> provenance resource.
> But I see that you may also need an identifier for the HTML to 
> interpret that provenance (and the rest of this response addresses 
> just that issue).
> ...
> I see two, maybe three possibilities:
> (a) rely on some unspecified mechanism here - i.e. don't specify a 
> specific mechanism for this case.
> (b) add something to the HTML to identify the resource it represents. 
> (Off the top of my head, this could be <meta>, <link>, or RDFa - I'm 
> sure there are other options.)
> (c) adopt a packaging mechanism that can combine arbitrary data and 
> metadata.
> (d) ... maybe something else.
> I think the scenario alone isn't enough information to make a sensible 
> choice here - which to be useful has to be one that developers will 
> actually implement.
> If I were forced to make a choice now, I'd go with (a) or maybe (b) 
> with a <link> element and a new link relation roughly for "self".
> The packaging approach would solve more problems generally, but I 
> don't think we know enough to make a call on a specific mechanism that 
> would effectively promote interoperability, and there's enough defined 
> mechanism (cf. 
> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/tip/paq/provenance-access.html#gap-analysis) 
> for developers to do something that would work right now.
> #g
> -- 
> Luc Moreau wrote:
>> Hi Graham,
>> I guess that D7 is the case I was after.
>> Note that D7 is not an image but an html file. Where do I find its 
>> identifier?
>> Luc
>> On 07/28/2011 11:26 AM, Graham Klyne wrote:
>>> I've added a scenario analysis appendix to the PAQ document at 
>>> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/be3b7e1f2518/paq/provenance-access.html 
>>> The short answer to this issue is that I believe there are some 
>>> matters that are  beyond the scope of a W3C specification document.  
>>> The mechanisms described (or with placeholders for fuller 
>>> description) could form the basis for applications that need to deal 
>>> with, say, data provided on a USB drive, but a complete 
>>> specification would IMO be inappropriate.
>>> e.g.
>>> [[
>>> S: this scenario effectively calls for this: given an arbitrary data 
>>> resource, implement a general purpose application to discover, 
>>> retrieve and analyze provenance about that resource. At the present 
>>> time, this is a matter for experimental development, which could be 
>>> based substantially on the mechanisms described for provenance 
>>> discovery and access via third party services.
>>> ]]

Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Thursday, 28 July 2011 14:22:50 UTC

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