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Re: PROV-ISSUE-30 (name-for-bob): What name do we use for the BOB construct? [Conceptual Model]

From: Luc Moreau <L.Moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 11:10:13 +0100
Message-ID: <EMEW3|00531e142a0c82e1b8c929ab0d7837cen6OBAI08L.Moreau|ecs.soton.ac.uk|4E2D4105.4020500@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
To: Khalid Belhajjame <Khalid.Belhajjame@cs.man.ac.uk>
CC: Paul Groth <p.t.groth@vu.nl>, "public-prov-wg@w3.org" <public-prov-wg@w3.org>
Why not 'perspective' then?

Luc

On 07/25/2011 11:07 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 10:24, Luc Moreau wrote:
>>
>> The problem with Snapshot (like state, etc), is that it is the 
>> snapshot of an entity.
>> We just don't want to distinguish an entity from its state, or an 
>> entity from its snapshot.
>
> On the other hand, Snapshot has the advantage of conveying the fact 
> that it is a description from a certain perspective (view).
>
> khalid
>
>>
>> Hence, using Entity avoids this problem.
>>
>> Luc
>>
>> On 07/25/2011 10:19 AM, Paul Groth wrote:
>>> I thought we were getting somewhere with snapshot.....
>>>
>>> I don't think ENTITY really captures the intuition behind a BOB. 
>>> It's too general.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Luc Moreau wrote:
>>>> The word 'Entity' should also be considered for the construct BOB.
>>>>
>>>> If we do so, the text 'characterized entity' should be replaced by
>>>> something else in the draft specification.
>>>> Why not 'thing'?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, the text could become:
>>>>
>>>>    Section 4.
>>>>    In the world (whether real or not), there are things, which can be
>>>> physical, digital, conceptual, or otherwise, and activities involving
>>>> things.
>>>>    Words such as thing or activity should be understood with their
>>>> informal meaning.
>>>>    This specification is concerned with characterized things, that is,
>>>> things and their situation in the world, as perceived by the asserter.
>>>>
>>>>    Section 5.1
>>>>    An ENTITY represents an identifiable characterized thing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Luc
>>>>
>>>> On 07/24/2011 11:43 PM, Reza B'Far wrote:
>>>>> First, for the record Khalid was the person suggesting Snapshot :)
>>>>>
>>>>> The way I've seen snapshot used commercially, it's fairly consistent
>>>>> with the current definition of BOB.  There is some murkiness on both
>>>>> sides (how "snapshot" is used commercially and I think we're still
>>>>> iterating here on the definition of BOB, but may be that's close 
>>>>> to be
>>>>> finalized).  However, I think they are close enough.  What I liked
>>>>> about "Snapshot" is that its intuitive and is used in several domains
>>>>> that I know of (content management, legal, configuration systems, and
>>>>> I've also seen use-cases in microfilm production by old-school
>>>>> librarians).  Also, I think "Snapshot" offers a huge advantage that
>>>>> it's neither explicitly linked to the entity nor its state.  And I
>>>>> know the distinction between entity vs. entity's state and how that's
>>>>> articulated has been in a lot of the discussions.  Using "Snapshot"
>>>>> sort of obsoletes that discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/24/11 12:57 PM, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>>>>>> I am not partial to snapshot, partially because of the extensive
>>>>>> functional usage of the term.  I have always associated a snapshot
>>>>>> with a point in time, not a duration - but this may be an incorrect
>>>>>> association.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am open to discussing it, but my initial inclination was negative
>>>>>> towards it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will we use the same definition as we have been using for BOB?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Stephan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:52 AM, "Reza B'Far"<reza.bfar@oracle.com>   
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I second the term "Snapshot".  This term also has functional usage
>>>>>>> in several commercial application categories used within roughly 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same meaning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/24/11 3:45 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Stephan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given the example you gave in your previous email, I think that
>>>>>>>> "EntitySpanshot" or "Snapshot" should be fine, given that it
>>>>>>>> reflect the fact that it is a description of an entity that holds
>>>>>>>> for some period of time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you agree?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> khalid
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23/07/2011 20:24, Stephan Zednik wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I do not feel that EntityInstance, EntityInstantiation, or
>>>>>>>>> InstantiatedEntity make sense for the book ownership scenario, or
>>>>>>>>> any scenario modeling the provenance of changes in 
>>>>>>>>> characteristics
>>>>>>>>> of a physical object.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To reiterate the example since I haven't committed it to a wiki
>>>>>>>>> page yet.  Book X is an entity that represents a real world
>>>>>>>>> object.  It can be put on a shelf, loaned to friends, damaged,
>>>>>>>>> and/or destroyed.  It has important characteristics (condition,
>>>>>>>>> ownership, location, etc) that may change over the life of the
>>>>>>>>> book.  We may want to represent the provenance of the book as a
>>>>>>>>> chain of ownership.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> |<----------------------------------------------------- Book X
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------->| 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> |<!------ Book X with owner A ---->|<----Book X with owner B
>>>>>>>>> ---->|<---- Book X with owner A --------->|
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If a book changes ownership, is the "book with changed ownership"
>>>>>>>>> a different EntityInstance?  A different InstantiatedEntity?  I
>>>>>>>>> don't think what we current call a BOB is an 'instance of'
>>>>>>>>> anything.  I think of it as a description of an entity that holds
>>>>>>>>> for some time period (not necessarily given) for which
>>>>>>>>> contextually important mutable characteristics of the the entity
>>>>>>>>> are held to be known.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --Stephan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7/22/2011 5:29 AM, Curt Tilmes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 07/22/2011 03:43 AM, Khalid Belhajjame wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The term "Snapshot" was suggested some time ago, and it 
>>>>>>>>>>> seems that
>>>>>>>>>>> several people did like it.
>>>>>>>>>>> We can also use the term "EntitySnapshot".
>>>>>>>>>> Following from snapshot:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EntityInstance
>>>>>>>>>> EntityInstantiation
>>>>>>>>>> InstantiatedEntity
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Curt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

-- 
Professor Luc Moreau
Electronics and Computer Science   tel:   +44 23 8059 4487
University of Southampton          fax:   +44 23 8059 2865
Southampton SO17 1BJ               email: l.moreau@ecs.soton.ac.uk
United Kingdom                     http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~lavm
Received on Monday, 25 July 2011 10:10:48 GMT

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