- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 12:13:33 -0500
- To: "public-pointer-events@w3.org" <public-pointer-events@w3.org>
The draft minutes from the December 4 voice conference are available at
<http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html> and copied below.
WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send
them to the public-pointer-events mail list before December 11. In the
absence of any changes, these minutes will be considered approved.
Thanks Rick for Scribing this meeting!
-ArtB
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Pointer Events WG Voice Conference
04 Dec 2012
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0077.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-irc
Attendees
Present
Art_Barstow, Olli_Pettay, Jacob_Rossi, Rick_Byers,
Asir_Vedamuthu, Scott_González, Doug_Schepers,
Matt_Brubeck
Regrets
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art, Rick
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Getting started
2. [6]announcements?
3. [7]CfC to publish first public working draft
4. [8]bugs
5. [9]bug 20107 - Pointer events should indicate stylus
eraser/inversion
6. [10]Bug 20108 - Extend pointer events to support raw
trackpad data
7. [11]Bug 20108 - Clarify pointer capture behavior
8. [12]20109 - Permitted values for pressure
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109
9. [13]20111 - Define compatibility mapping for touch
events
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20111
10. [14]20112 - pointerenter and pointerleave events
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20112
11. [15]Pointer Events and Click; thread
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-ev
ents/2012OctDec/0072.html>
12. [16]any other business
* [17]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<ArtB> Scribe: Art
<ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
Date: 4 December 2012
<smaug> hmm, is it possible to teach Zakim to bind certain nick
always to the right person
<smaug> mbrubeck: ping
Getting started
AB: need a scribe (cheat sheet
<[18]http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/Meetings#Meeting_Scri
bes>)
[18] http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/Meetings#Meeting_Scribes%3E)
RB: I can take it today but want someone else to help in the
future
AB: thanks Rick
<scribe> ScribeNick: rbyers
<ArtB> Scribe+ Rick
Jacob: we should rotate scribe according the bugs
<scribe> Agenda:
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
012OctDec/0077.html
[19] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0077.html
announcements?
CfC to publish first public working draft
Art: proposal is to go ahead and publish it
... but Jacob is free to update the doc, eg. to reflect any
decisions made today
... any objections?
None
<ArtB> RESOLUTION: the group agrees to publish a FPWD of
Pointer Events
<ArtB> ACTION: Jacob prepare a FPWD and notify Art when it is
ready (see [20]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/SpecEditing)
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
[20] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/SpecEditing)
<trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Prepare a FPWD and notify Art
when it is ready (see
[22]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/SpecEditing) on Jacob Rossi
- due 2012-12-11].
[22] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/SpecEditing)
Art: guess is doc will be published a week from today, or ...
<missed>
... last date to publish this year is Dec 13
Jacob: is there a CfC period?
Art: No, resolution is good enough for you to start
Jacob: Think I can get it in sometime this week
<ArtB> ACTION: barstow send Transition Request for FPWD of
Pointer Events [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Send Transition Request for FPWD
of Pointer Events [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-12-11].
bugs
Jacob: for new bugs, suggest we wait for some discussion on the
list
bug 20107 - Pointer events should indicate stylus eraser/inversion
<ArtB> —>
[24]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20107
[24] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20107
Jacob: current spec doesn't expose erase, valid feedback.
... default guess: another value for the button property
Rick: how is the button identified?
Jacob: suggest we use the identifier from the USB HID
<jrossi2>
[25]http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEve
nts.html#chorded-button-interactions
[25] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/pointerevents/raw-file/tip/pointerEvents.html#chorded-button-interactions
Jacob: suggest appending to this table a button #5%
... will send mail with suggested button name
... if everyone agrees, will change the spec
Bug 20108 - Extend pointer events to support raw trackpad data
<ArtB> —>
[26]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20108
[26] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20108
correction
Bug 20108 - Clarify pointer capture behavior
Jacob: what's missing from the spec are some additional things
IE10 does for the capture APIs:
... see bug for details
... #1 - should it be possible to capture when buttons=0?
Olli: may need other mechanism for UA to release pointer
capture
... gecko is fairly strict in it's set capture implementation
... probably more so than IE
Jacob: sounds like we need some allowances for UAs to choose to
release capture at other times
Olli: Agree
Jacob: in IE10, it also differs between Win7 and Win8
... I will think through some spec text to give more freedom
... to clarify, IE10 only has preview on Win7 that doesn't
support pointer events.
... #4 from bug: pointer events aren't dispatched to elements
not in the document
... believe this is consistent with most types of events
Rick: touch events is very different - always capture to the
node where they started, even once removed from the document
Jacob: prefer not to allow events for detached element
Rick: agree
Jacob: #5: compat mouse events are also redirected to captured
element
... to be consistent with where pointer events
... hearing no opposition, should we add them?
Olli: should we limited capturing to a single document?
Jacob: I have looked into those multi-iframe scenarios.
... you're not going to get access to the dom, but you will get
co-ordinate data
... agree we need to be very careful.
... if we come up with a specific issue, we can open a bug to
add a restrictioon
Olli: ok
RESOLUTION: Will add the additional pointer capture conditions
to the spec
20109 - Permitted values for pressure
[27]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109
[27] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20109
<ArtB> —>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2
012OctDec/0018.html
[28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0018.html
<jrossi2>
[29]http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/Hut1_12v2.pdf
[29] http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/Hut1_12v2.pdf
Jacob: Input APIs in Windows are largely designed around this
USB spec
... defines two different ways of looking at pressure, as
discussed on the list
... uses both relative (0..127) and absolute (physical units)
forms of pressure
... get the point that a more capable pen should be able to
provide higher than normal values
... think we should either keep it as is, or switch to physical
units
Olli: clear we can't report some random value that has no
meaning
Rick: probably only conforming behavior on Android is to
truncate above 1.0
Jacob: want the property to be interoperable and mean the same
thing
<Asir> sorry I got dropped and reconnected
Rick: key question is if we have only one anchor, should we
anchor against the maximum value or some subjective indication
of 'norma' pressure
Jacob: related issue: how to report no support for pressure
... currently we report 0
Matt: would be nice for applicatons to have one code path for
pressure sensitive and non-pressure sensitive devices
... using 0 means the app must handle the two cases seperately
Jacob: we want this to be device agnostic - don't want to
become a device properties spec
Jacob/Matt/Rick: agree we should simulate reasonable pressure
Jacob: in particular, if device does not support pressure,
value should be 0 when not in active button state, and 1 when
it is
RESOLUTION: if device does not support pressure, value should
be 0 when not in active button state, and 1 when it is
Jacob: OK, what about max vs. normal?
Art: could rely on implementation feedback
Rick: evidence for using 'normal' is not strong
RESOLUTION: Keep pressure range as speced, but listen for
implementation feedback
shepazu: Can emulate pressure via surface area
... should we account for this?
Jacob: a UA could do this, and web site wouldn't notice. So
would be hard to call this not compliant
shepazu: should we mention this as a note?
Jacob: don't want to go too far in specifying device behavior
here
<ArtB> ACTION: barstow add doug's use case about varying touch
pressure to v.next list [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Add doug's use case about varying
touch pressure to v.next list [on Arthur Barstow - due
2012-12-11].
20111 - Define compatibility mapping for touch events
[31]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20111
[31] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20111
Art: any objections to touch-events mapping being done in
webevents WG instead of pointer events wG?
None
RESOLUTION: Touch-event mapping is out of scope for pointer
events WG, will be handled by web events WG instead
<ArtB> ACTION: barstow work with Doug and Rick on defining
Touch Events mapping in the Web Events WG [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Work with Doug and Rick on
defining Touch Events mapping in the Web Events WG [on Arthur
Barstow - due 2012-12-11].
20112 - pointerenter and pointerleave events
[33]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20112
[33] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20112
Jacob: no opposition to adding to the spec, assuming it's the
same definition as for mouse
Art: any objections?
RESOLUTION: Add pointeenter and pointerleave to spec using the
same model as mouseenter and mouseleave
Art: extend to 90 minutes?
Rick: Jacob: hope/expect we won't have 90 minutes worth of bugs
to discuss
Doug: would have conflict
Jacob: suggest we leave as is for at least December, and if
we're building up a backlog we can revisit in new year
... if we're active on the mailing list then we can cover more
there
Pointer Events and Click; thread
<[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012Oc
tDec/0072.html>
[34] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2012OctDec/0072.html%3E
Art: seems to have resolved, follow-up on list
any other business
Art: will have meeting next week, Doug will chair
Rick: I may not be able to make it next week
Doug: I will keep track
... and let the list know if there's a meeting next week
Jacob: what do we need to do to get Matt permission to help
edit the PE spec?
Art: all members already have permission
Jacob: OK, I'll work with Matt to make him an editor
np Art, a few more times and I may start to get better at it
;-)
<ArtB> rbyers - you are doing a GREAT job!
<ArtB> Scribe: Rick
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: barstow add doug's use case about varying touch
pressure to v.next list [recorded in
[35]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion03]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow send Transition Request for FPWD of
Pointer Events [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion02]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow work with Doug and Rick on defining Touch
Events mapping in the Web Events WG [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion04]
[NEW] ACTION: Jacob prepare a FPWD and notify Art when it is
ready (see [38]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/SpecEditing)
[recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2012/12/04-pointerevents-minutes.html#act
ion01]
[38] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/SpecEditing
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 4 December 2012 17:14:04 UTC