Re: ACTION-1349: Creation of aria-placeholder

What if there's no element to refer to? Should we have
aria-description="text goes here" for symmetry?

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:39 AM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
wrote:

> note: the HTML5 placeholder attribute content is exposed via acc
> description in most browsers.
> tests from 31/10/13
> http://www.html5accessibility.com/tests/placeholder-labelling.html
>
> would it not make sense to have an ARIA design pattern advising devs to do
> similar (map to aria-descrivedby) if they include a pseudo placeholder in a
> custom control?.Since there is no placeholder property in acc APIs.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
> On 15 January 2015 at 15:26, Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@google.com> wrote:
>
>> I like that note, but would it make sense for ARIA? After all,
>> aria-placeholder itself wouldn't make something displayed - it's just a way
>> to notify AT that a placeholder is there, maybe implementedvia an overlay
>> or something.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:10 AM, Fred Esch <fesch@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joanie,
>>>
>>> I like what you have, but I also like the note from MDN
>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/Input  as the
>>> MDN note explicitly states not to use a placeholder instead of a label.
>>>
>>> *Note:* Do not use the placeholder attribute instead of a *<label>*
>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/label> element.
>>> Their purposes are different: the *<label>*
>>> <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/label> attribute
>>> describes the role of the form element; that is, it indicates what kind of
>>> information is expected, the placeholder attribute is a hint about the
>>> format the content should take. There are cases in which the placeholder attribute
>>> is never displayed to the user, so the form must be understandable without
>>> it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Regards,
>>>
>>> Fred Esch
>>> Accessibility, Watson Innovations
>>> AARB Complex Visualization Working Group Chair
>>> W3C SVG A11y Task Force
>>> [image: IBM Watson Group]
>>>
>>>    [image: Fred]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Joanmarie Diggs ---01/15/2015 09:56:56
>>> AM---Hi all. Proposed text for aria-placeholder follows. It's]Joanmarie
>>> Diggs ---01/15/2015 09:56:56 AM---Hi all. Proposed text for
>>> aria-placeholder follows. It's lifted pretty much
>>>
>>> From: Joanmarie Diggs <jdiggs@igalia.com>
>>> To: W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <public-pfwg@w3.org>
>>> Date: 01/15/2015 09:56 AM
>>> Subject: ACTION-1349: Creation of aria-placeholder
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi all.
>>>
>>> Proposed text for aria-placeholder follows. It's lifted pretty much
>>> verbatim from the HTML5 spec. Thoughts?
>>>
>>> <proposal>
>>> Represents a short hint (a word or short phrase) intended to aid the
>>> user with data entry when the control has no value. A hint could be a
>>> sample value or a brief description of the expected format.
>>>
>>> Authors SHOULD present this hint to the user by displaying the text
>>> inside a blank unfocused control.
>>>
>>> Note: As is the case with the related HTML placeholder attribute, use of
>>> placeholder text as a replacement for a displayed label can reduce the
>>> accessibility and usability of the control for a range of users
>>> including older users and users with cognitive, mobility, fine motor
>>> skill or vision impairments. While the hint given by the control's label
>>> is shown at all times, the short hint given in the placeholder attribute
>>> is only shown before the user enters a value. Furthermore, placeholder
>>> text may be mistaken for a pre-filled value, and as commonly implemented
>>> the default color of the placeholder text provides insufficient contrast
>>> and the lack of a separate visible label reduces the size of the hit
>>> region available for setting focus on the control.
>>> </proposal>
>>>
>>> --joanie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>