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Re: Please clarify ARIA definition of "grid" role

From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 15:10:39 -0700
Cc: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>, public-pfwg-comments@w3.org
Message-id: <55390290-4A48-4239-9ACF-99AC8E6ED565@apple.com>
To: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>

On Aug 31, 2010, at 2:30 PM, James Craig wrote:

> On Aug 31, 2010, at 7:40 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
> 
>> On Aug 31, 2010, at 4:45 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
>>> If we are going to defined the table element in terms of ARIA semantics whereby our define of grid one one of an interactive table, then we have only two choices:
>>> 
>>> - take our first proposal which states that Table has no default ARIA semantics, which is true.
>>> - If we are going to define Table in terms of ARIA semantics then we would need to define table in terms of a static non-interactive, non-navigable ARIA grid. The HTML specification does not state that a table is not non-interactive nor does it state that it can't be me made navigable. The only thing it states that a <table> can't be used for is layout (which I disagree with and is inconsistent with worldwide web usage of table). Yet, a table allows an author to apply script to it to change its functionality. 
>>> 
>> I think the first option is superior. If <table> does not satisfy the "grid" role by default, then it should just have no role. I don't think it's helpful to say it is kind of a grid but not really.
> 
> This still isn't right. The BaseConcept of grid is "HTML table", and the Required Owned Elements for grid are:
> 	• row
> 	• rowgroup → row
> 
> Last November at the F2F, we added the rowgroup role specifically so that ARIA grids could have role symmetry with the HTML table child elements thead, tbody, and tfoot. 
> 
> 	rowgroup http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/complete#rowgroup
> 	BaseConcept: HTML thead, tfoot, and tbody	
> 	Note: This role does not differentiate between types of row groups (e.g. thead vs. tbody), but an issue has been raised for WAI-ARIA 2.0.
> 
> One of the reasons we needed role symmetry was due to the complexities of presentation inheritance with host language implicit semantics.
> 
> From the spec: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/complete#presentation

Would this imply that the "grid" definition *should* cover non-interactive presentations of tabular data, such as HTML <table>? That is fine by me. I just want the ARIA spec and the HTML5 spec to be in sync on this. The thing I didn't like about Rich's proposal is that it would make HTML <table> be a "grid but not really". I don't think that is a useful state. Either it's a grid or it's not.

I have no personal stake in the question of whether it is actually a grid. I just want it to be one or the other.

Regards,
Maciej
Received on Tuesday, 31 August 2010 22:11:13 GMT

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