Re: Please clarify ARIA definition of "grid" role

Added the following note to ISSUE-421.

I'd support allowing the HTML role mapping of table to grid because the distinction you're making applies to behavior, not role. A table is just a readonly grid that is not focus-managed by the author. If we limit grids to interactive controls and explicitly disallow the role on tables, we won't have role symmetry with HTML, and we'd need to define a few more roles. We specifically added rowgroup to account for thead, tbody, and tfoot, so we've already implied that this is a suitable role for HTML tables. 

I believe the reason you're making the distinction is due to the Windows screen readers behavior of key events inside elements with role application. What if we added the prose to indicate that grids inside [role="application"] where interactive, author-managed-focus controls, and grids inside [role="document"] were readonly, UA-managed-focus tables?


On Aug 28, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:

> Maciej,
> 
> That's fair. I have opened issue 421 to address this change with your suggested text. http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/421
> 
> Thank you,
> Rich
> 
> 
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
> CTO Accessibility Software Group
> 
> <graycol.gif>Maciej Stachowiak ---08/28/2010 08:45:00 PM---On Aug 26, 2010, at 7:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote: > Tables do NOT allow users to move focus
> 
> From:	Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
> To:	Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc:	public-pfwg-comments@w3.org, public-pfwg-comments-request@w3.org, Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>
> Date:	08/28/2010 08:45 PM
> Subject:	Re: Please clarify ARIA definition of "grid" role
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Aug 26, 2010, at 7:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
> 
> > Tables do NOT allow users to move focus between cells using two dimensional navigation. 
> > 
> My reading of that sentence was that it was a statement of fact about what would happen if you apply the grid role (that the assistive technology would provide two-dimentional navigation), not a limitation on when it may be applied. Since multiple people misunderstood this definition on first reading, I think a clarification would still be helpful, even if you think it is not strictly necessary. For example:
> 
> "A grid is an interactive control which contains cells of tabular data arranged in rows and columns, like a table."
> 
> I think that simple change to ARIA would have prevented all confusion.
> 
> Regards,
> Maciej
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Rich Schwerdtfeger
> > CTO Accessibility Software Group
> > 
> > <graycol.gif>Maciej Stachowiak ---08/26/2010 05:03:10 AM---ARIA has the following definition of the "grid" role: ------------
> > 
> > From:	 Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
> > To:	 public-pfwg-comments@w3.org
> > Cc:	 Steve Faulkner <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>
> > Date:	 08/26/2010 05:03 AM
> > Subject:	 Please clarify ARIA definition of "grid" role
> > Sent by:	 public-pfwg-comments-request@w3.org
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ARIA has the following definition of the "grid" role:
> > 
> > ------------
> > <http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/roles#grid>
> > A grid contains cells of tabular data arranged in rows and columns, like a table.
> > 
> > Grids do not necessarily imply presentation. The grid construct describes relationships between data such that it may be used for different presentations. Grids allow the user to move focus between cells using two dimensional navigation. For example, grid might be used as the invisible data model (hidden with CSS but still operable by assistive technologies) for a presentational chart.
> > ------------
> > 
> > This seems like an exact match for the HTML <table> element, which contains cells of tabular data arranged in rows and columns, like a table. According to Steve Faulkner, however, this role is only supposed to be used for *interactive* presentations of tabular data arranged in rows and columns. Please update the ARIA draft to make this clear. Or, if the grid role is in fact supposed to be applicable even to non-interactive presentations of tabular data, please reply with this information ASAP, since it is relevant to the ARIA role mapping in the HTML5 spec.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Maciej
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>