W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-owl-wg@w3.org > February 2008

Re: timed IRC log

From: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 06:40:13 -0500
To: public-owl-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <8661.1204198813@ubuhebe>


I'm not sure what happened to RRSAgent, but for the recoord here's my
(xchat) log of yesterday's meeting.  Times are in US/Eastern.

     -- Sandro


**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 27 12:32:43 2008

Feb 27 12:32:43 -->	You are now talking on #owl
Feb 27 12:32:43 ---	Topic for #owl is http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Agenda
Feb 27 12:32:43 ---	Topic for #owl set by alanr at Wed Feb 20 13:58:28 2008
Feb 27 12:35:55 ---	pfps_ has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.27/Agenda
Feb 27 12:38:06 -->	m_schnei (543a5ef6@128.30.52.23) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:40:50 *	m_schnei test
Feb 27 12:40:54 -->	Carsten (chatzilla@141.76.75.193) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:51:29 -->	IanH (horrocks@129.67.118.66) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:53:07 -->	Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.30) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:53:17 -->	RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.30) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:53:18 <RRSAgent>	logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/27-owl-irc
Feb 27 12:53:51 <pfps_>	zakim, this is owlwg
Feb 27 12:53:51 <Zakim>	pfps_, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be owlwg".
Feb 27 12:54:00 <pfps_>	zakim, this will be owlwg
Feb 27 12:54:00 <Zakim>	ok, pfps_; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 54 minutes ago
Feb 27 12:54:18 -->	ewallace (chatzilla@129.6.33.37) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:54:33 -->	bmotik (bmotik@129.67.151.47) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:54:53 <Zakim>	SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started
Feb 27 12:55:00 <Zakim>	+pfps_
Feb 27 12:55:07 <pfps_>	zakim, who is on the phone?
Feb 27 12:55:07 <Zakim>	On the phone I see pfps_
Feb 27 12:55:09 <Zakim>	+??P3
Feb 27 12:55:10 -->	Elisa (ekendall@64.175.38.47) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:55:14 <bmotik>	Zakim, ??p3 is me
Feb 27 12:55:14 <Zakim>	+bmotik; got it
Feb 27 12:55:32 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 12:55:32 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 12:55:39 -->	bcuencagrau (8143957d@128.30.52.23) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:55:46 <bmotik>	Zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 12:55:46 <Zakim>	bmotik should no longer be muted
Feb 27 12:55:57 <Zakim>	+??P4
Feb 27 12:56:03 <Zakim>	+Elisa_Kendall
Feb 27 12:56:07 <m_schnei>	zakim, ??P4 is me
Feb 27 12:56:07 <Zakim>	+m_schnei; got it
Feb 27 12:56:13 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 12:56:13 <Zakim>	m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei
Feb 27 12:56:15 <Zakim>	+Evan_Wallace
Feb 27 12:56:21 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 12:56:21 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 12:56:35 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 12:56:35 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 12:56:44 <pfps_>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 12:56:44 <Zakim>	pfps_ should now be muted
Feb 27 12:57:15 <Zakim>	+??P7
Feb 27 12:57:42 <Zakim>	+??P8
Feb 27 12:58:06 <bcuencagrau>	Zakim, ??P8 is me
Feb 27 12:58:06 <Zakim>	+bcuencagrau; got it
Feb 27 12:58:14 <bcuencagrau>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 12:58:14 <Zakim>	bcuencagrau should now be muted
Feb 27 12:58:33 <Elisa>	ScribeNick: Elisa
Feb 27 12:59:15 -->	MarkusK (markusk@87.177.183.164) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:59:18 *	pfps_ zakim and rrsagent know what is going on
Feb 27 12:59:26 -->	jeremy (jeremy@213.78.230.65) has joined #owl
Feb 27 12:59:37 *	Elisa thanks - I must have joined after that
Feb 27 12:59:45 <Zakim>	+[IPcaller]
Feb 27 12:59:57 *	MarkusK zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Feb 27 12:59:57 *	Zakim +MarkusK; got it
Feb 27 13:00:01 -->	uli (uli@130.88.196.49) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:00:09 *	MarkusK zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:00:09 *	Zakim MarkusK should now be muted
Feb 27 13:00:16 <IanH>	peter, how do we make Elisa be the scribe?
Feb 27 13:00:19 <Zakim>	+ +7.955.aaaa
Feb 27 13:00:22 *	pfps_ a cheat-sheet would be useful (on zakim and rrsagent)
Feb 27 13:00:35 <jeremy>	Zakim, aaaa is me
Feb 27 13:00:35 <Zakim>	+jeremy; got it
Feb 27 13:00:46 <Zakim>	+m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:00:48 <jeremy>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:00:48 <Zakim>	jeremy should now be muted
Feb 27 13:00:52 -->	ivan (chatzilla@128.30.52.30) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:01:01 -->	Zhe (945701aa@128.30.52.23) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:01:04 <Zakim>	+??P0
Feb 27 13:01:07 -->	MartinD (chatzilla@137.108.145.250) has joined #OWL
Feb 27 13:01:10 <IanH>	Ivan, we need help with zakim scribing etc
Feb 27 13:01:13 <uli>	zakim, ??P0 is me
Feb 27 13:01:13 <Zakim>	+uli; got it
Feb 27 13:01:17 <ivan>	zakim, dial ivan-voip
Feb 27 13:01:17 <Zakim>	ok, ivan; the call is being made
Feb 27 13:01:18 <Zakim>	+Ivan
Feb 27 13:01:22 <Zakim>	+ +0190827aabb
Feb 27 13:01:29 <MartinD>	zakim, aabb is me
Feb 27 13:01:29 <Zakim>	+MartinD; got it
Feb 27 13:01:32 <uli>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:01:32 <Zakim>	uli should now be muted
Feb 27 13:01:41 <ivan>	rrsagent, set log public
Feb 27 13:01:41 <RRSAgent>	I have made the request, ivan
Feb 27 13:01:43 <Zhe>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:01:43 <Zakim>	sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Feb 27 13:01:44 <MartinD>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:01:44 <Zakim>	MartinD should now be muted
Feb 27 13:01:49 <Zakim>	-m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:01:59 *	ivan to Ian: what is the problem?
Feb 27 13:02:04 <Zakim>	+Vipul_Kashyap
Feb 27 13:02:06 <IanH>	Can anyone hear me?
Feb 27 13:02:14 <ewallace>	No
Feb 27 13:02:14 -->	DougL (4aca47c9@128.30.52.23) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:02:17 *	ivan does not hear Ian
Feb 27 13:02:19 <Zakim>	+m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:02:21 <m_schnei>	why does zakim say things like "+m_schnei.a"?
Feb 27 13:02:25 <jeremy>	-1
Feb 27 13:02:33 -->	vipul (aadff72d@89.238.143.101) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:02:35 <IanH>	I'll try dialing in again
Feb 27 13:02:35 <Zhe>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:02:35 <Zakim>	sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Feb 27 13:02:43 <Zakim>	-bcuencagrau
Feb 27 13:02:59 <jeremy>	zakim believes that the line associated with some call is your line
Feb 27 13:03:00 -->	JeffP (8b850725@128.30.52.23) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:03:02 <Zakim>	+ +1.512.342.aacc
Feb 27 13:03:12 <Zakim>	-m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:03:13 <Zakim>	+Carsten
Feb 27 13:03:14 -->	hendler (chatzilla@128.113.47.165) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:03:15 <DougL>	zakim, aacc is me
Feb 27 13:03:15 <Zakim>	+DougL; got it
Feb 27 13:03:22 *	Elisa Ian - still can't hear you
Feb 27 13:03:22 <Carsten>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:03:22 <Zakim>	Carsten should now be muted
Feb 27 13:03:23 <Zakim>	+Sandro
Feb 27 13:03:33 <m_schnei>	no, it said this looong after!
Feb 27 13:03:34 <jeremy>	zakim, who is on the call?
Feb 27 13:03:34 <Zakim>	On the phone I see pfps_ (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, ??P7, MarkusK (muted), jeremy (muted), uli (muted), Ivan, MartinD (muted),
Feb 27 13:03:37 <Zakim>	... Vipul_Kashyap, DougL, Carsten (muted), Sandro
Feb 27 13:03:39 <Zakim>	+??P2
Feb 27 13:03:43 <Zakim>	+m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:03:46 <Zakim>	+ +1.518.276.aadd
Feb 27 13:03:50 <Zakim>	+Jeff_Pan
Feb 27 13:03:52 <IanH>	zakim, ??P2 is IanH
Feb 27 13:03:52 <Zakim>	+IanH; got it
Feb 27 13:03:53 <hendler>	zakim, aadd is me
Feb 27 13:03:54 <Zakim>	+hendler; got it
Feb 27 13:04:03 <m_schnei>	maybe I have stolen someone else's phone line?
Feb 27 13:04:04 *	ivan wonders who is 'aadd'
Feb 27 13:04:12 <Zhe>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:04:12 <Zakim>	sorry, Zhe, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Feb 27 13:04:18 <IanH>	zakim, who is here
Feb 27 13:04:18 <Zakim>	IanH, you need to end that query with '?'
Feb 27 13:04:27 <IanH>	zakim, who is here?
Feb 27 13:04:27 <Zakim>	On the phone I see pfps_ (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, ??P7, MarkusK (muted), jeremy (muted), uli (muted), Ivan, MartinD (muted),
Feb 27 13:04:30 <Zakim>	... Vipul_Kashyap, DougL, Carsten (muted), Sandro, IanH, m_schnei.a, hendler, Jeff_Pan
Feb 27 13:04:31 <Zakim>	On IRC I see hendler, JeffP, vipul, DougL, MartinD, Zhe, ivan, uli, jeremy, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, Elisa, bmotik, ewallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, Carsten, m_schnei, sandro, pfps_,
Feb 27 13:04:33 <Zakim>	... pfps, trackbot-ng
Feb 27 13:04:43 <jeremy>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:04:43 <Zakim>	jeremy should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:04:44 <Zhe>	Zakim, ??P& is me
Feb 27 13:04:44 <Zakim>	sorry, Zhe, I do not recognize a party named '??P&'
Feb 27 13:04:54 *	hendler thinks someone needs to get Ralph to teach xakim about "implicature" in speech acts...
Feb 27 13:05:06 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:05:06 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:05:10 <pfps_>	Zakim, ??P7 is Zhe
Feb 27 13:05:10 <Zakim>	+Zhe; got it
Feb 27 13:05:10 <Zhe>	Zakim, ??P7 is me
Feb 27 13:05:11 <Zakim>	I already had ??P7 as Zhe, Zhe
Feb 27 13:05:20 *	MarkusK hears you Michael
Feb 27 13:05:24 <m_schnei>	ok, I go out
Feb 27 13:05:33 <Zakim>	-m_schnei
Feb 27 13:05:42 <sandro>	zakim, who is on the call?
Feb 27 13:05:42 <Zakim>	On the phone I see pfps_ (muted), bmotik (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, MarkusK (muted), jeremy, uli (muted), Ivan, MartinD (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, DougL, Carsten
Feb 27 13:05:45 <Zakim>	... (muted), Sandro, IanH, m_schnei.a, hendler, Jeff_Pan
Feb 27 13:06:03 -->	Achille (81221413@128.30.52.23) has joined #owl
Feb 27 13:06:07 <sandro>	zakim, drop m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:06:07 <Zakim>	m_schnei.a is being disconnected
Feb 27 13:06:09 <Zakim>	-m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:06:10 <Zakim>	+??P4
Feb 27 13:06:16 <Zhe>	I was dropped
Feb 27 13:06:18 <m_schnei>	im in again
Feb 27 13:06:26 <m_schnei>	zakim, ??P4 is me
Feb 27 13:06:26 <Zakim>	+m_schnei; got it
Feb 27 13:06:26 <sandro>	zakim, drop Zhe
Feb 27 13:06:27 *	hendler will the real Michael Schneider please stand up...
Feb 27 13:06:27 <Zakim>	Zhe is being disconnected
Feb 27 13:06:28 <Zakim>	-Zhe
Feb 27 13:06:38 <IanH>	zakim, who is on the cs
Feb 27 13:06:38 <Zakim>	I don't understand 'who is on the cs', IanH
Feb 27 13:06:38 <jeremy>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:06:39 <Zakim>	jeremy should now be muted
Feb 27 13:06:40 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:06:40 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:06:41 <Zakim>	+[IBM]
Feb 27 13:06:42 <bcuencagrau>	hey you guys cut me!
Feb 27 13:06:44 <IanH>	zakim, who is on the call?
Feb 27 13:06:44 <Zakim>	On the phone I see pfps_ (muted), bmotik (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK (muted), jeremy (muted), uli (muted), Ivan, MartinD (muted), Vipul_Kashyap, DougL, Carsten
Feb 27 13:06:48 <Zakim>	... (muted), Sandro, IanH, hendler, Jeff_Pan, m_schnei (muted), [IBM]
Feb 27 13:06:54 <Achille>	Zakim, IBM is Achille
Feb 27 13:06:54 <Zakim>	+Achille; got it
Feb 27 13:07:06 *	pfps_ bernardo has to call back in
Feb 27 13:07:10 <Elisa>	Topic: Admin
Feb 27 13:07:19 <Elisa>	Agenda amendments - none
Feb 27 13:07:38 <Zakim>	+m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:07:45 <pfps_>	+1
Feb 27 13:07:47 <Zakim>	+??P18
Feb 27 13:08:02 <pfps_>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:08:02 <Zakim>	pfps_ was already muted, pfps_
Feb 27 13:08:04 <bcuencagrau>	Zakim, ??P18 is me
Feb 27 13:08:04 <Zakim>	+bcuencagrau; got it
Feb 27 13:08:10 *	Zakim hears m_schnei.a's hand up
Feb 27 13:08:11 *	Zakim sees m_schnei.a on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:08:19 <bcuencagrau>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:08:19 <Zakim>	bcuencagrau should now be muted
Feb 27 13:08:21 <sandro>	Zakim, m_schnei.a is Zhe
Feb 27 13:08:21 <Zakim>	+Zhe; got it
Feb 27 13:08:25 <Zhe>	thanks
Feb 27 13:08:35 <IanH>	PROPOSAL: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes
Feb 27 13:08:48 <ivan>	+1 for the minutes
Feb 27 13:08:50 <MartinD>	+1
Feb 27 13:08:55 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 13:09:17 <m_schnei>	2008-02-13
Feb 27 13:09:48 <uli>	i think the linked minutes *are* 20th
Feb 27 13:10:02 <IanH>	PROPOSAL: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Minutes
Feb 27 13:10:15 <pfps_>	+1
Feb 27 13:10:17 <Zhe>	+1
Feb 27 13:10:26 <IanH>	RESOLVED: accept previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Minutes
Feb 27 13:10:44 <jeremy>	note the 20th minutes indicate that we did approve the 13th minutes
Feb 27 13:10:48 <Elisa>	Upcoming incubator group discussion
Feb 27 13:11:00 <m_schnei>	What is the incubator group?
Feb 27 13:11:23 <Elisa>	Ivan: the incubator group is finally looking at ways of mapping data to RDF
Feb 27 13:11:39 <Elisa>	this is relevant to this group is that they are interested in mapping relational
Feb 27 13:11:51 <sandro>	RRSAgent, pointer?
Feb 27 13:11:51 <RRSAgent>	See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/27-owl-irc#T18-12-39
Feb 27 13:11:55 <Elisa>	data to owl structures; if all goes as planned, it will be announced tomorrow
Feb 27 13:12:15 <Elisa>	it will be announced on the home page as well; charter URL is not available yet
Feb 27 13:12:29 <hendler>	q+ to say not obliquely
Feb 27 13:12:29 *	Zakim sees m_schnei.a, hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:12:39 <Elisa>	Ian: this is something we would just want to keep an eye on, but not much to do now
Feb 27 13:12:49 <IanH>	Q?
Feb 27 13:12:49 *	Zakim sees m_schnei.a, hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:12:59 <m_schnei>	no
Feb 27 13:13:00 <Elisa>	Pending actions discussion
Feb 27 13:13:06 <m_schnei>	it is *not* me
Feb 27 13:13:07 <sandro>	ack m_schnei.a
Feb 27 13:13:07 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:13:14 <sandro>	ack hendler 
Feb 27 13:13:14 <Zakim>	hendler, you wanted to say not obliquely
Feb 27 13:13:15 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:13:32 <pfps_>	q+
Feb 27 13:13:32 *	Zakim sees pfps_ on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:13:35 <jeremy>	+1
Feb 27 13:13:36 *	MartinD thinks incubator group's a group for ideas that are not yet mature enough to justify WG... something to explore and idea... is that correct?
Feb 27 13:13:37 <Elisa>	Jim: just wanted to say that the incubator group is directly related to the discussion on fragments 
Feb 27 13:13:38 <pfps_>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:13:38 <Zakim>	pfps_ should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:13:50 <Elisa>	related to SQL queries, so we need to pay close attention to this
Feb 27 13:13:52 <pfps_>	q-
Feb 27 13:13:52 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:14:08 <Elisa>	we should make sure that the coordination group makes sure that we don't work at cross purposes
Feb 27 13:14:17 *	jeremy to MartinD yes
Feb 27 13:14:18 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:14:18 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:14:33 ---	#owl :You're not channel operator
Feb 27 13:15:02 <Elisa>	Ian: so should we consider nominating someone to coordinate with this group?
Feb 27 13:15:13 <Elisa>	Ivan: I propose we should wait a week and look at the charter first
Feb 27 13:15:16 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:15:16 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:15:25 <Elisa>	Note that the chair is from oracle
Feb 27 13:15:31 <Elisa>	Pending review actions
Feb 27 13:15:38 <ewallace>	q+
Feb 27 13:15:38 *	Zakim sees ewallace on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:15:55 <Elisa>	Ian: there was agreement that Boris would update the spec to address issue-95
Feb 27 13:15:57 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:15:57 *	Zakim sees ewallace on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:16:01 <Elisa>	any objection?
Feb 27 13:16:17 <Elisa>	Evan: I brought up in email that figure 5 does not completely reflect the change
Feb 27 13:16:29 <bmotik>	Zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:16:29 <Zakim>	bmotik should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:16:30 <Elisa>	Ian: is that the only problem, that figure 5 needs fixing?
Feb 27 13:16:33 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:16:33 *	Zakim sees ewallace on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:16:40 <IanH>	ack ewallace
Feb 27 13:16:40 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:16:48 <Elisa>	Evan: I didn't particularly like the resolution either, but given the resolution, yes
Feb 27 13:16:57 <Elisa>	Boris: what's wrong with the figure?
Feb 27 13:17:16 <pfps_>	figure 5 is also wrong for me
Feb 27 13:17:17 <Elisa>	Evan: it should point to a datatype rather than DataRange
Feb 27 13:17:23 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:17:23 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:17:24 <JeffP>	URL?
Feb 27 13:17:36 <Elisa>	Boris: it's been corrected - you might need to refresh your cache
Feb 27 13:17:36 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 13:17:36 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:17:41 <pfps_>	but refreshing fixes it
Feb 27 13:17:41 <uli>	fig 5 on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Syntax
Feb 27 13:17:43 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:17:43 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:17:48 <Elisa>	Ian: Peter also says this is aproblem for him
Feb 27 13:17:50 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:17:50 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:18:14 <Elisa>	Michael: what about the other document, the semantics and RDF mapping ... which is a little bit confusing
Feb 27 13:18:28 <Elisa>	Ian: are you asking about interactions with other documents?
Feb 27 13:18:44 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:18:44 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:18:45 <Elisa>	Michael: yes, interactions between the syntax document and other documents on this issue
Feb 27 13:18:49 <JeffP>	uli, thanks!
Feb 27 13:18:58 <Elisa>	Boris: I need to check the documents
Feb 27 13:19:33 <Elisa>	Ian: we may not be able to resolve these issues with issue 95, thus it may need revisiting next week
Feb 27 13:19:33 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:19:33 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:19:54 <Elisa>	Boris: I don't think the other documents need to change, but perhaps other people have other opinions 
Feb 27 13:20:09 <Elisa>	Ian: perhaps we should come back to this next week for a definitive answer
Feb 27 13:20:09 <pfps_>	semantics has to change, but only very little
Feb 27 13:20:40 <Elisa>	Ian: Let's leave this as pending and revisit it next week
Feb 27 13:20:44 <Elisa>	Boris: ok
Feb 27 13:21:00 <ewallace>	After refreshing I do see the change in Figure 5!
Feb 27 13:21:01 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:21:01 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:21:15 <m_schnei>	no
Feb 27 13:21:15 <Elisa>	Ian: Action 87, which alan has completed ... are we happy with what alan has written there?
Feb 27 13:21:17 <m_schnei>	q-
Feb 27 13:21:17 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:21:39 <Elisa>	Ian: Action 87: Complete
Feb 27 13:21:43 <pfps_>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:21:43 <Zakim>	pfps_ was not muted, pfps_
Feb 27 13:21:47 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:21:47 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:21:57 <m_schnei>	+1 to peter's mail
Feb 27 13:22:02 <pfps_>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:22:02 <Zakim>	pfps_ should now be muted
Feb 27 13:22:06 <jeremy>	+1
Feb 27 13:22:13 <Elisa>	Ian: Action 92: Peter to write up his understanding of ISSUE-68
Feb 27 13:22:24 <Elisa>	ACTION 92: complete
Feb 27 13:22:24 *	RRSAgent records action 1
Feb 27 13:22:37 *	jeremy zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:22:37 *	Zakim jeremy should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:22:41 <Elisa>	Action 72, Action 79 postponed
Feb 27 13:22:49 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:22:49 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:23:23 *	jeremy zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:23:23 *	Zakim jeremy should now be muted
Feb 27 13:23:23 <Elisa>	Action 90 - Jeremy, pending, will try to get it done for next week
Feb 27 13:23:36 *	pfps_ no bijan
Feb 27 13:23:44 <Elisa>	Action 42, Bijan - postponed
Feb 27 13:23:50 <jeremy>	ditto
Feb 27 13:23:56 <uli>	Bijan said he was working on it
Feb 27 13:23:59 <Elisa>	Action 86, Jeremy - pending for next week
Feb 27 13:24:34 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:24:34 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:24:37 <jeremy>	jeremy; a lot of HP work on at the moment, should ease off at easter
Feb 27 13:24:38 <Elisa>	Ian: Publication schedule, issue from Boris regarding updating public working drafts, which docs we might want to publish
Feb 27 13:24:59 <Elisa>	would we want to update the current working drafts or potentially publish other documents
Feb 27 13:25:10 <pfps_>	+1 to boris's proposal :-)
Feb 27 13:25:15 <sandro>	q+
Feb 27 13:25:15 *	Zakim sees sandro on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:25:17 <jeremy>	q+
Feb 27 13:25:17 *	Zakim sees sandro, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:25:19 <uli>	+1
Feb 27 13:25:24 <Elisa>	Boris proposes that at least the current 3 docs that are working drafts should be updated
Feb 27 13:25:51 <Elisa>	Sandro: the motivation doesn't make sense to me; we can make snapshots for the working group, but the reason to publish
Feb 27 13:26:04 <pfps_>	q+
Feb 27 13:26:04 *	Zakim sees sandro, jeremy, pfps_ on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:26:06 <Elisa>	new working drafts is to get feedback from outside the working group
Feb 27 13:26:18 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:26:18 *	Zakim sees sandro, jeremy, pfps_ on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:26:21 <bmotik>	q+
Feb 27 13:26:21 *	Zakim sees sandro, jeremy, pfps_, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:26:22 <sandro>	q-
Feb 27 13:26:23 *	Zakim sees jeremy, pfps_, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:26:24 <pfps_>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:26:24 <Zakim>	pfps_ should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:26:26 <Elisa>	Ian: this is a good point, have the docs changed sufficiently that we would want outside feedback
Feb 27 13:26:34 <jeremy>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 13:26:34 *	Zakim unmutes jeremy
Feb 27 13:26:35 *	Zakim sees pfps_, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:27:09 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:27:09 *	Zakim sees pfps_, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:27:10 <sandro>	heatbeat deadline is April 8th
Feb 27 13:27:22 <Elisa>	Jeremy: I think that it is good to show that we're aligned, if we are
Feb 27 13:27:53 <Elisa>	Sandro: the work in making another working draft is to publish a note to the public that there is another working draft, and then to publish it
Feb 27 13:28:06 <Elisa>	If there are changes worth sharing, then sure, let's republish
Feb 27 13:28:09 *	uli wonders whether we want to publish new documents?
Feb 27 13:28:12 <pfps_>	q-
Feb 27 13:28:12 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:28:16 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:28:16 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:28:39 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:28:39 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:28:41 <Elisa>	Ian: several people mentioned publishing the XML syntax, two things to discuss - A, are the changes sufficient to publish new versions
Feb 27 13:28:54 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:28:54 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:28:55 <Elisa>	and B should we consider publishing additional documents
Feb 27 13:29:01 <jeremy>	q+ tp bring up grddl
Feb 27 13:29:01 *	Zakim jeremy, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
Feb 27 13:29:12 <Elisa>	Boris: I think it would be good to show that we are aligned and something has changed
Feb 27 13:29:14 <jeremy>	q+ tp mention grddl
Feb 27 13:29:14 *	Zakim jeremy, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
Feb 27 13:29:24 <jeremy>	q+ to bring up grddl
Feb 27 13:29:24 *	Zakim sees bmotik, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:29:32 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:29:32 *	Zakim sees bmotik, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:29:42 <Elisa>	I also think we have fixed quite a few bugs, and coming up with a list of the issues we've fixed might also be good
Feb 27 13:29:42 *	hendler notes we'
Feb 27 13:29:43 <IanH>	ack bmotik
Feb 27 13:29:43 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:29:47 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:29:47 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:30:01 <Elisa>	We should consider the XML syntax and also the RDF mapping
Feb 27 13:30:13 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:30:13 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:30:24 *	hendler notes we've had very few comments (unless I'm looking in the wrong place) - not sure responses to two comments motivate republication
Feb 27 13:30:26 <Elisa>	Boris: the other document we should publish is the XML syntax, if we can achieve resolution on the fragments then
Feb 27 13:30:31 <Elisa>	we should consider that as well
Feb 27 13:30:34 <DougL>	Zakim, you never fail to remind us to be humble in our claims and expectations about how close we are to semantic understanding in our software.
Feb 27 13:30:34 <Zakim>	I don't understand you, DougL
Feb 27 13:30:43 <Elisa>	Ian: I don't think that the fragments are ready yet
Feb 27 13:31:06 <DougL>	Exactly.
Feb 27 13:31:32 <Elisa>	Jeremy: I'm in principle in favor of publishing the XML syntax, we should add having a GRIDDL profile to the issue list
Feb 27 13:31:41 <Elisa>	Ian: yes I think that's appropriate
Feb 27 13:31:46 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:31:46 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:31:48 <Elisa>	Jeremy: ok, I'll do that
Feb 27 13:31:56 <jeremy>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 13:31:56 <Zakim>	jeremy, you wanted to bring up grddl
Feb 27 13:31:58 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:32:06 <jeremy>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:32:06 <Zakim>	jeremy should now be muted
Feb 27 13:32:34 <Elisa>	Ian: nobody else expressed anything about the other working drafts ... don't know whether that speaks for or against republishing
Feb 27 13:32:39 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:32:39 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:32:57 <Elisa>	Perhaps if we publish both the documents and a list of the issues that have been addressed / changed / fixed would be useful
Feb 27 13:32:59 <jeremy>	-0
Feb 27 13:33:08 <sandro>	STRAWPOLL: Should we re-publish new version of three already-published documents
Feb 27 13:33:13 <Elisa>	Straw pole on whether we should publish new ones, perhaps we should do this doc by doc
Feb 27 13:33:20 <sandro>	STRAWPOLL: Syntax?
Feb 27 13:33:21 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:22 <hendler>	+0
Feb 27 13:33:22 <Achille>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:22 <ewallace>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:22 <pfps_>	+1 to re-publish
Feb 27 13:33:24 <ivan>	0
Feb 27 13:33:24 <m_schnei>	-0
Feb 27 13:33:26 <MarkusK>	+0
Feb 27 13:33:26 <Elisa>	who thinks the structural syntax has changed enough
Feb 27 13:33:26 <uli>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:27 <jeremy>	-0
Feb 27 13:33:27 <DougL>	0
Feb 27 13:33:28 <Zhe>	0
Feb 27 13:33:28 <JeffP>	0
Feb 27 13:33:30 <bcuencagrau>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:32 <Elisa>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:35 <Carsten>	+1
Feb 27 13:33:46 <Elisa>	ok so generally positive on structural syntad
Feb 27 13:33:49 <sandro>	STRAWPOLL: Semantics?
Feb 27 13:33:53 <Elisa>	same question on semantics document
Feb 27 13:34:21 <hendler>	-0
Feb 27 13:34:24 <ivan>	-0
Feb 27 13:34:33 <m_schnei>	-0
Feb 27 13:34:37 <pfps_>	+1
Feb 27 13:34:42 <Achille>	+1
Feb 27 13:34:43 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 13:34:44 <jeremy>	-0
Feb 27 13:34:46 <Elisa>	0
Feb 27 13:34:49 <Zhe>	0
Feb 27 13:34:52 <ewallace>	0
Feb 27 13:34:52 <DougL>	0
Feb 27 13:35:02 <Elisa>	Ian: do we need a formal resolution to publish?
Feb 27 13:35:11 <jeremy>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:35:11 <Zakim>	jeremy should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:35:17 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:35:17 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:35:17 <Elisa>	Sandro: yes, with regard to publishing, we should
Feb 27 13:35:18 <pfps_>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:35:18 <Zakim>	pfps_ should now be muted
Feb 27 13:35:20 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:35:20 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 13:35:42 <Elisa>	Jeremy: I feel that we should have addressed 1 or 2 of the harder issues before republishing
Feb 27 13:35:43 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:35:43 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:35:48 <hendler>	q+
Feb 27 13:35:48 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:36:04 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:36:04 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:36:08 <sandro>	Jeremy: I'd like us to have done one or two of the harder issues before republishing -- especially given Jim's point about lack of interest in the previous draft.    I wouldn't oppose publishing, but I'm not convinced it's worth the effort.
Feb 27 13:36:08 <Elisa>	We've done quite a bit of cleaning up, but something new would be more interesting -- I'm not convinced that it's work the effort
Feb 27 13:36:10 <IanH>	ack hendler
Feb 27 13:36:10 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:36:14 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:36:14 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:36:18 <sandro>	Jim: My real fear is exausting people.
Feb 27 13:36:36 <sandro>	Jim: ... ie crying wolf.
Feb 27 13:36:38 <jeremy>	jeremy: i would concur
Feb 27 13:36:46 <Elisa>	Jim: my real fear is of exhausting people - if we republish for minor issues, people won't really look when we rerelease for major issues
Feb 27 13:36:48 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:36:48 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:37:03 <jeremy>	q+
Feb 27 13:37:03 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:37:07 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:37:07 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:37:18 <Elisa>	we run the risk of getting to CR and having people raise more difficult issues
Feb 27 13:37:38 <Elisa>	Sandro: if we publish with a list of the things we've addressed, and then ask for feedback does that make sense
Feb 27 13:37:47 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:37:47 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:38:16 <Elisa>	Jim: my sense is that people don't read the status section, and I would prefer we fix some more substantive issues before publication
Feb 27 13:38:30 <Elisa>	Jeremy: we can meet the heartbeat status by publishing other documents
Feb 27 13:38:32 *	hendler wants to make it clear that this is NOT an anti status - it's that I really want to make sure people DO pay attention.
Feb 27 13:38:32 <Zakim>	-pfps_
Feb 27 13:38:36 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:38:36 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:38:40 <sandro>	q+ to ask if we should republish all when we republish any?
Feb 27 13:38:40 *	Zakim sees jeremy, sandro on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:38:44 <sandro>	ack jeremy 
Feb 27 13:38:44 *	Zakim sees sandro on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:38:57 <sandro>	q-
Feb 27 13:38:57 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:39:15 <sandro>	Ian: Okay, let's try to resolve another issue or two
Feb 27 13:39:22 <Elisa>	Perhaps we should see if we can resolve a few more of these issues before publishing,
Feb 27 13:39:25 <sandro>	STRAWPOLL: Semantics -- republish?
Feb 27 13:39:32 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 13:39:33 <ewallace>	-0
Feb 27 13:39:33 <ivan>	-0
Feb 27 13:39:35 <Achille>	+1
Feb 27 13:39:36 <Zhe>	0
Feb 27 13:39:36 <JeffP>	0
Feb 27 13:39:38 <hendler>	-.000000001
Feb 27 13:39:39 <MarkusK>	+0
Feb 27 13:39:40 <m_schnei>	-0
Feb 27 13:39:44 <bcuencagrau>	0
Feb 27 13:39:44 <uli>	+0
Feb 27 13:39:44 <jeremy>	-0
Feb 27 13:40:07 <Elisa>	Ian: so not very strong support for that, how about the RDF mapping document
Feb 27 13:40:10 <sandro>	STRAWPOLL: republish RDF Mapping?
Feb 27 13:40:12 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 13:40:15 <hendler>	-0
Feb 27 13:40:16 <ewallace>	0
Feb 27 13:40:18 <Zhe>	0
Feb 27 13:40:18 <Achille>	+1
Feb 27 13:40:19 <MarkusK>	+0
Feb 27 13:40:21 <m_schnei>	-0
Feb 27 13:40:23 <JeffP>	0
Feb 27 13:40:24 <ivan>	-1
Feb 27 13:40:27 <bcuencagrau>	0
Feb 27 13:40:55 <ewallace>	and the Primer
Feb 27 13:40:57 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 13:40:57 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:41:04 <Elisa>	Ian: so similarly, not tremendously strong support for that, so the other issue is whether or not to go forward with any of the other documents, modulo resolving the GRDDL issue
Feb 27 13:41:12 <Elisa>	with the XML syntax document, 
Feb 27 13:41:18 <IanH>	STRAWPOLL: XML syntax to FPWD
Feb 27 13:41:19 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 13:41:21 <uli>	+1
Feb 27 13:41:23 <bcuencagrau>	+1
Feb 27 13:41:25 <Elisa>	how many feel we should publish that
Feb 27 13:41:27 <hendler>	-0 without GRDDL, +1 with 
Feb 27 13:41:30 <Zakim>	+pfps_
Feb 27 13:41:31 <jeremy>	i don't think we need resolve grddl issue before pub
Feb 27 13:41:31 <Zhe>	+0
Feb 27 13:41:32 <MarkusK>	+0
Feb 27 13:41:32 <m_schnei>	-1 until I have done my homework
Feb 27 13:41:33 <ivan>	1
Feb 27 13:41:33 <ewallace>	+1
Feb 27 13:41:35 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:41:35 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:41:36 <JeffP>	0
Feb 27 13:41:39 <Achille>	0 : I have not followed the changes made there
Feb 27 13:41:39 <jeremy>	+1
Feb 27 13:41:43 <DougL>	0
Feb 27 13:41:44 <pfps_>	+1 to publish
Feb 27 13:41:45 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:41:45 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:42:06 *	ivan michael sounds like talking from under water
Feb 27 13:42:07 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:42:07 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:42:09 <Elisa>	Michael: need time to read this document before I say anything about it
Feb 27 13:42:14 <jeremy>	q+
Feb 27 13:42:14 *	Zakim sees m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:42:20 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:42:20 *	Zakim sees m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:42:21 <ivan>	ack m_schnei 
Feb 27 13:42:22 *	Zakim unmutes m_schnei
Feb 27 13:42:23 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:42:23 <m_schnei>	:-)
Feb 27 13:42:23 <Elisa>	Ian: it has been on the wiki since the working group started ...
Feb 27 13:42:34 <bmotik>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:42:34 <Zakim>	bmotik was already muted, bmotik
Feb 27 13:42:42 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:42:42 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:42:56 *	bmotik thinks the line is rather noisy
Feb 27 13:43:03 <m_schnei>	there is a strong echo in the line
Feb 27 13:43:05 <pfps_>	zakim, who is talking?
Feb 27 13:43:09 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:43:09 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:43:15 <Zakim>	pfps_, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: IanH (24%), Sandro (40%)
Feb 27 13:43:17 <pfps_>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:43:18 <Zakim>	pfps_ should now be muted
Feb 27 13:43:26 <sandro>	zakim, who is talking?
Feb 27 13:43:37 <Zakim>	sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: jeremy (5%)
Feb 27 13:43:39 <jeremy>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 13:43:39 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:43:52 <Elisa>	Ian: we have homework to do, potential issues with respect to GRDDL, and then we can think about a potential proposal to publish
Feb 27 13:44:07 <Elisa>	Topic: Proposal to Resolve
Feb 27 13:44:09 <m_schnei>	+q
Feb 27 13:44:09 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:44:13 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:44:13 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:44:26 <bmotik>	I've already updated some of the documents
Feb 27 13:44:28 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:44:28 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:44:31 <Elisa>	Ian: this needs to be postponed to next week
Feb 27 13:44:42 <bmotik>	q+
Feb 27 13:44:42 *	Zakim sees m_schnei, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:45:08 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:45:08 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:45:23 <Elisa>	Michael: ISSUE-95 is only about this compatibility table, it may make sense to close this and open another regarding datatype restrictions
Feb 27 13:45:27 <m_schnei>	yes
Feb 27 13:45:27 <bmotik>	Zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:45:27 <Zakim>	bmotik should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:45:31 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:45:31 *	Zakim sees m_schnei, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:45:42 <IanH>	ack m_schnei
Feb 27 13:45:42 *	Zakim unmutes m_schnei
Feb 27 13:45:43 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:45:48 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:45:48 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:45:59 <Elisa>	Boris: I actually think this is difficult to split, the table by itself is meaningless unless you say how you are applying it
Feb 27 13:46:17 <JeffP>	+1
Feb 27 13:46:17 <Elisa>	when I entered this issue, I thought these two things had to be considered together
Feb 27 13:46:45 <Elisa>	I do agree that we probably need something like named datatypes, but this issue is about fixing an error, modulo fixing the other docs
Feb 27 13:46:57 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:46:57 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:47:01 <Elisa>	If there are other features we should discuss them separately, and limit scope
Feb 27 13:47:28 <m_schnei>	agreed, it's probably better to leave 95 open for the moment
Feb 27 13:47:40 <Elisa>	Ian: we should try to keep issues fairly scoped; there are a few details that you didn't get to, but hopefully they will be resolved by next week
Feb 27 13:47:51 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:47:51 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:47:51 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:47:52 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 13:48:02 <IanH>	ack bmotik
Feb 27 13:48:02 *	Zakim unmutes bmotik
Feb 27 13:48:03 <bmotik>	q-
Feb 27 13:48:04 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:48:06 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:48:10 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me 
Feb 27 13:48:10 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 13:48:29 <Elisa>	Ian: Next issue is OWL 1.1 Full
Feb 27 13:48:40 <jeremy>	yes
Feb 27 13:48:52 <Elisa>	Some of the issues related to OWL 1.1 Full are some of these difficult issues to which Jeremy was alluding when we discussed publication
Feb 27 13:49:13 <Elisa>	we need to figure out generally how we're going to go forward on OWL 1.1 FUll, who is going to address the semantics,
Feb 27 13:49:22 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:49:22 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:49:26 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 13:49:26 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:49:33 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:49:33 <Zakim>	m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei
Feb 27 13:49:34 <Elisa>	are the semantics going to be completely new, who is going to do the work, anybody interested in doing the work
Feb 27 13:50:17 <Elisa>	Michael: I offer to expand the semantics to cover the new constructs ... I would need alot of people to look over what I do if I do it
Feb 27 13:50:26 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:50:26 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:50:34 <IanH>	ack m_schnei
Feb 27 13:50:34 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:50:38 <Elisa>	I could expand the semantics to include the new constructs as they are, but would need significant review
Feb 27 13:50:42 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:50:42 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:50:56 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:50:56 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:51:03 <Elisa>	Jeremy: I would offer to review / play a supportive role of the sort michael is asking for
Feb 27 13:51:14 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:51:14 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:51:21 <Elisa>	Ian: is this the right way forward, or would we prefer to look for completely new semantics
Feb 27 13:51:39 <Elisa>	Jeremy: Bijan had a proposal for completely new semantics that I've lost track of, he's not on the call
Feb 27 13:51:54 <Elisa>	Ian: so what do you think about this Jeremy - about extending the existing semantics
Feb 27 13:52:23 <Elisa>	Jeremy: to me this shouldn't be too difficult to extend the existing semantics ...we've hit an issue with the QCRs that needs to be addressed ...
Feb 27 13:52:25 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:52:25 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:52:36 <Elisa>	the property change looks quite straightforward to me
Feb 27 13:52:59 <Elisa>	the issues are going to be where it interacts with other things, such as reification
Feb 27 13:53:13 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:53:13 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:53:39 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 13:53:39 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:53:41 <--	vipul has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
Feb 27 13:53:44 <Elisa>	Ian: quite alot of the other issues are not saying ... there is a known problem here ... we need to discover whether there really
Feb 27 13:53:53 <Zakim>	-Vipul_Kashyap
Feb 27 13:53:53 <Elisa>	is an issue here, and then figure out how to address it
Feb 27 13:53:56 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:53:56 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:54:04 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:54:04 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:54:07 <ivan>	ack m_schnei 
Feb 27 13:54:07 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:54:10 <Elisa>	We seem to have a way forward here
Feb 27 13:54:37 <Elisa>	Michael: I think the best would be to follow what ... has done a few weeks ago, a proposal for semantics with considerations
Feb 27 13:54:49 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:54:49 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:54:50 <Elisa>	then we can look at what the problems are
Feb 27 13:54:57 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:54:57 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:55:13 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:55:13 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:55:16 <Elisa>	Jeremy: we could go for a public working draft that is essential a diff -- here are the new bits, that will be
Feb 27 13:55:25 <Elisa>	converged with the older version eventually
Feb 27 13:55:39 <Elisa>	Clearly by working draft 2 or 3 we would actually need to do the merge
Feb 27 13:55:59 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:55:59 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:56:06 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:56:06 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:56:06 <Elisa>	Ian: we should have an action on Michael to do this ... Michael, how long do you need for this ...
Feb 27 13:56:36 <Elisa>	Michael: since I have already done some preliminary work, we could have the start of a wiki for F2F2
Feb 27 13:57:05 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:57:05 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:57:09 <Elisa>	A wiki version, which has language constructs and related semantics and considerations for F2F2, not a full draft, which will take a lot of writing
Feb 27 13:57:42 *	hendler will certainly review, but semantics isn't the issue I care most about - so will just be review...
Feb 27 13:57:48 <Elisa>	ACTION: Michael will initiate work on the OWL 1.1 Full semantics, with a draft posted to the wiki a week prior to the next F2F meeting
Feb 27 13:57:48 *	trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
Feb 27 13:57:48 *	RRSAgent records action 2
Feb 27 13:57:48 <trackbot-ng>	Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Michael
Feb 27 13:57:48 <trackbot-ng>	Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. msmith9, mschneid, msintek)
Feb 27 13:57:52 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:57:52 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:58:18 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 13:58:18 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 13:58:25 <Elisa>	ACTION Mschneid will initiate work on the OWL 1.1 Full semantics, with a draft posted to the wiki a week prior to the next F2F meeting
Feb 27 13:58:32 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:58:32 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:58:43 <sandro>	Elisa, it's "ACTION: name to ..."
Feb 27 13:59:04 <sandro>	(you left out the colon the second time.)
Feb 27 13:59:14 <Carsten>	I very much agree!! Alas, I have to go. bye.
Feb 27 13:59:15 <sandro>	ACTION: Mschneid will initiate work on the OWL 1.1 Full semantics, with a draft posted to the wiki a week prior to the next F2F meeting
Feb 27 13:59:15 *	RRSAgent records action 3
Feb 27 13:59:15 *	trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
Feb 27 13:59:15 <trackbot-ng>	Created ACTION-93 - Will initiate work on the OWL 1.1 Full semantics, with a draft posted to the wiki a week prior to the next F2F meeting [on Michael Schneider - due 2008-03-05].
Feb 27 13:59:16 <Elisa>	ACTION: Mschneid will initiate work on the OWL 1.1 Full semantics, with draft posted to the wiki a week prior to the next F2F meeting
Feb 27 13:59:16 *	RRSAgent records action 4
Feb 27 13:59:16 *	trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
Feb 27 13:59:16 <trackbot-ng>	Created ACTION-94 - Will initiate work on the OWL 1.1 Full semantics, with draft posted to the wiki a week prior to the next F2F meeting [on Michael Schneider - due 2008-03-05].
Feb 27 13:59:28 <sandro>	d'poh.   I'll drop action 94
Feb 27 13:59:30 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:59:30 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:59:37 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:59:37 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:59:38 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 13:59:38 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:59:39 *	Elisa thanks
Feb 27 13:59:45 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 13:59:45 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 13:59:46 <ivan>	ack m_schnei 
Feb 27 13:59:47 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 13:59:47 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:59:49 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 13:59:57 <Zakim>	-Carsten
Feb 27 14:00:45 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:00:45 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:00:50 <Elisa>	Michael: it's a layered architecture, might use a rule-based semantics, taking the lead from the semantics for RDFS
Feb 27 14:01:26 <jeremy>	q+
Feb 27 14:01:26 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:01:35 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:01:35 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:01:36 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:01:36 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 14:01:38 <Elisa>	could specify this with a rule-based semantics - I think this fragment would be a good place to start
Feb 27 14:01:57 <Elisa>	Jeremy: is the proposal that we should define OWL prime fragment by a set of rules that would
Feb 27 14:02:16 <Elisa>	give aminimum level of entailment
Feb 27 14:02:24 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:02:24 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:02:59 <Elisa>	Ian: this is something that isn't completely clear in the email on this fragments thread
Feb 27 14:03:02 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:03:02 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:03 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:03:04 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 14:03:08 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:03:08 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:12 <IanH>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 14:03:12 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:14 <jeremy>	q-
Feb 27 14:03:14 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:17 -->	t (roessler@128.30.52.30) has joined #owl
Feb 27 14:03:22 <Elisa>	Michael: completeness stuff I'm planning to address in email
Feb 27 14:03:25 <hendler>	q+
Feb 27 14:03:25 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:25 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:03:26 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:34 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:03:34 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:35 <Elisa>	Jeremy: and also what we mean by completeness
Feb 27 14:03:48 <Elisa>	Michael: there are a few things to consider, I will respond in email
Feb 27 14:03:56 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:03:56 *	Zakim sees hendler on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:58 <ivan>	ack hendler 
Feb 27 14:03:58 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:03:58 <Elisa>	Ian: this is a complex issue, so we should wait for follow up in email
Feb 27 14:03:58 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:03:59 <jeremy>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:03:59 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 14:04:00 <Zakim>	jeremy should now be muted
Feb 27 14:04:28 <Elisa>	Jim: there is a thread that has gone off into PD* completeness that started with a thread on OWL Full completeness ...
Feb 27 14:04:37 ---	t gives channel operator status to t
Feb 27 14:04:39 <Elisa>	are these two divergent threads
Feb 27 14:04:42 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 14:04:42 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:04:42 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:04:43 *	Zakim sees m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:04:47 <Elisa>	Owl prime completeness not owl full
Feb 27 14:04:47 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:04:47 <Zakim>	m_schnei should no longer be muted
Feb 27 14:04:49 <ivan>	ack m_schnei 
Feb 27 14:04:49 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:04:51 ---	t gives channel operator status to sandro
Feb 27 14:05:04 <Elisa>	Michael: the problem is that owl prime is a moving target
Feb 27 14:05:16 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:05:16 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:05:21 <Elisa>	I think it has the possibility to converge
Feb 27 14:05:24 <--	t (roessler@128.30.52.30) has left #owl
Feb 27 14:05:24 <ivan>	q+
Feb 27 14:05:24 *	Zakim sees ivan on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:05:28 <Zakim>	+jjc
Feb 27 14:05:28 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:05:29 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 14:05:30 <Zakim>	-jeremy
Feb 27 14:05:30 <Elisa>	Jim: ok then I'll wait to see what happens
Feb 27 14:05:41 <Zhe>	q+
Feb 27 14:05:41 *	Zakim sees ivan, Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:05:44 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:05:44 *	Zakim sees ivan, Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:05:51 <Elisa>	Ian: it will help alot to have the extended owl full semantics, which is significant progress
Feb 27 14:06:08 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:06:09 *	Zakim sees ivan, Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:06:15 <jeremy>	zakim, jjc is jeremy
Feb 27 14:06:15 <Zakim>	+jeremy; got it
Feb 27 14:06:46 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:06:46 *	Zakim sees ivan, Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:06:47 <m_schnei>	q+
Feb 27 14:06:48 *	Zakim sees ivan, Zhe, m_schnei on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:06:51 *	Zakim hears jeremy's hand up
Feb 27 14:06:51 <Elisa>	Ivan: the PD* and owl prime were all rule-based features in OWL 1.0, but when we look at the features to be added in OWL 1.1, there may be things worth investigating
Feb 27 14:06:52 *	Zakim sees ivan, Zhe, m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:06:54 <ivan>	ack ivan 
Feb 27 14:06:54 *	Zakim sees Zhe, m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:06:54 *	uli thinks that subproperty chains should be definitely in there
Feb 27 14:06:56 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:06:56 *	Zakim sees Zhe, m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:07:02 <ivan>	ack Zhe 
Feb 27 14:07:02 *	Zakim sees m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:07:17 *	pfps_ zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:07:17 *	Zakim pfps_ was already muted, pfps_
Feb 27 14:07:18 <Elisa>	Zhe: to Michael's comments, if he can come up with a set of rules for OWL full I will be happy to review them, then
Feb 27 14:07:26 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:07:26 *	Zakim sees m_schnei, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:07:27 <sandro>	zakim, who is on the call?
Feb 27 14:07:28 <Zakim>	On the phone I see bmotik (muted), Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK (muted), uli (muted), Ivan, MartinD (muted), DougL, Sandro, IanH, hendler, Jeff_Pan, m_schnei (muted),
Feb 27 14:07:30 <Zakim>	... Achille, Zhe, bcuencagrau (muted), pfps_ (muted), jeremy
Feb 27 14:07:30 <ivan>	ack m_schnei 
Feb 27 14:07:30 *	Zakim unmutes m_schnei
Feb 27 14:07:31 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:07:32 <m_schnei>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:07:32 <Zakim>	m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei
Feb 27 14:07:33 <Elisa>	with respect to OWL 1.1, I think the property chains can be addressed with a few rules
Feb 27 14:07:36 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:07:36 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:07:37 *	hendler wonders if we cannot set up a TF on RDFS 3/Owl Prime - so a smaller group could work on a design proposal
Feb 27 14:08:05 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:08:05 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:08:06 *	hendler (and ditto for other fragments, or one fragments TF)
Feb 27 14:08:12 <Elisa>	Michael: I think we have in mind OWL 1.1 features ... the question was where we don't have to do too much ourselves using the PD* paper
Feb 27 14:08:31 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:08:31 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:08:34 <Elisa>	going to OWL 1.1 features, we will have to address this ourselves, esp. wrt completeness
Feb 27 14:08:36 <m_schnei>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:08:36 <Zakim>	m_schnei should now be muted
Feb 27 14:08:42 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:08:42 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:08:47 <IanH>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 14:08:47 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:08:55 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:08:55 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:09:07 <Elisa>	Jeremy: I think the PD* design has some fairly clear principles, which can guide what should be included and what can't be
Feb 27 14:09:10 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:09:10 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:09:25 <sandro>	Present: bmotik, Elisa_Kendall, Evan_Wallace, MarkusK, uli, Ivan, MartinD, DougL, Sandro, IanH, hendler, Jeff_Pan, m_schnei, Achille, Zhe, bcuencagrau, pfps_, jeremy
Feb 27 14:09:31 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:09:31 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:09:32 <Elisa>	we could use these design principles to extend OWL prime as a result
Feb 27 14:09:38 <m_schnei>	of course, OWL-11 features have not been asked for yet for OWL-Prime
Feb 27 14:10:02 <Elisa>	Ian: the main object of this discussion was to make progress on OWL Full semantics, which we have
Feb 27 14:10:11 <Elisa>	Topic: Issue Discussions
Feb 27 14:10:13 <pfps_>	I wonder what most the important perceived pD* features are
Feb 27 14:10:40 <jeremy>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:10:40 <Zakim>	jeremy should now be muted
Feb 27 14:10:44 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:10:44 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:10:45 <bmotik>	q+
Feb 27 14:10:46 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:10:48 <bmotik>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:10:48 <Zakim>	bmotik should no longer be muted
Feb 27 14:10:49 <Elisa>	Ian: Issue 3 - anonymous individuals ... there has been some traffic on this over the last few weeks ... are we any closer
Feb 27 14:10:52 <Elisa>	to a resolution on this?
Feb 27 14:11:20 <hendler>	I wonder where the decision to use pd* as the formalism for OWL Prime occured
Feb 27 14:11:29 <Elisa>	Boris: the last time there was a question as to whether it would make sense to have anonymous individuals as skolems
Feb 27 14:11:42 <jeremy>	q+
Feb 27 14:11:42 *	Zakim sees bmotik, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:11:44 <uli>	+1 to Boris
Feb 27 14:11:44 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:11:44 *	Zakim sees bmotik, jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:11:48 <ivan>	ack bmotik 
Feb 27 14:11:48 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:11:48 <MarkusK>	+1
Feb 27 14:11:49 <pfps_>	+1 to Boris
Feb 27 14:11:53 <Elisa>	in the end we don't know what the semantics of owl full are, so I don't see that we are losing anything by that
Feb 27 14:11:56 <bcuencagrau>	+1 to Boris
Feb 27 14:12:00 <ivan>	ack jeremy 
Feb 27 14:12:00 *	Zakim unmutes jeremy
Feb 27 14:12:01 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:12:03 <jeremy>	zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:12:03 <Zakim>	jeremy was not muted, jeremy
Feb 27 14:12:04 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:12:04 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 14:12:08 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:12:08 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:12:21 <bmotik>	q+
Feb 27 14:12:21 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:12:25 <bmotik>	Zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:12:25 <Zakim>	bmotik should no longer be muted
Feb 27 14:12:34 <m_schnei>	jim, OWL-Prime and pD* have been discussed several times together in the past. This is why I found about pD* at all
Feb 27 14:12:38 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:12:38 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:12:49 <Elisa>	Jeremy: so, I think it depends what we mean by compatibility, from one point of view it would be backwards compatibility and another the forward view
Feb 27 14:12:49 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:12:49 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:12:57 <uli>	q+
Feb 27 14:12:57 *	Zakim sees bmotik, uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:13:01 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:13:01 *	Zakim sees bmotik, uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:13:02 <Elisa>	It would allow us to deal with more graphs
Feb 27 14:13:16 <hendler>	mike: I've seen that, but it's one of several things under discussion as best I can tell
Feb 27 14:13:20 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:13:20 *	Zakim sees bmotik, uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:13:20 <Elisa>	Ian: pragmatically it wouldn't be any different since people are doing this in practice
Feb 27 14:13:24 <ivan>	ack bmotik 
Feb 27 14:13:24 *	Zakim sees uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:13:29 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:13:29 *	Zakim sees uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:13:43 <Elisa>	Boris: pragmatically this would bring the spec in line with implementations in OWL DL
Feb 27 14:14:04 <Elisa>	I see this as an improvement rather than a disadvantage in OWL DL
Feb 27 14:14:30 *	jeremy leaves irc, still on call
Feb 27 14:14:35 <--	jeremy (jeremy@213.78.230.65) has left #owl
Feb 27 14:14:36 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:14:36 *	Zakim sees uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:14:37 <Elisa>	we don't know whether OWL Full model theory is satisfiable, so we are being forced into thinking about this for the sake of some phantom compatibility issue
Feb 27 14:14:45 <uli>	ack uli
Feb 27 14:14:45 *	Zakim unmutes uli
Feb 27 14:14:46 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:14:47 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:14:47 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:14:48 <ivan>	ack uli 
Feb 27 14:14:48 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:15:04 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:15:04 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:15:08 <bmotik>	Zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:15:08 <Zakim>	bmotik should now be muted
Feb 27 14:15:13 <Elisa>	Uli: I just wanted to make similar points - it would indeed cover more realistically what people have implemented and expect as answers
Feb 27 14:15:21 <--	sandro has kicked pfps from #owl (sandro)
Feb 27 14:15:27 <JeffP>	I agree to the implementation bit but not sure about the expectation bit
Feb 27 14:15:34 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:15:34 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:15:36 <Elisa>	it also reflects what people can implement - it would be extremely difficult to come up with a treatment of
Feb 27 14:15:43 <Elisa>	bnodes that would not be skolemized
Feb 27 14:16:00 <uli>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:16:00 <Zakim>	uli should now be muted
Feb 27 14:16:12 <Elisa>	Ian: it seems that several people have agreed with this point, even Jeremy is softly in agreement with this
Feb 27 14:16:15 *	Zakim hears jeremy's hand up
Feb 27 14:16:16 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:16:25 *	MartinD has to leave, sorry
Feb 27 14:16:26 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:16:26 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:16:30 <Elisa>	so we might be in a position to agree that this is a way to address this issue
Feb 27 14:16:32 <Zakim>	-MartinD
Feb 27 14:16:38 <--	MartinD (chatzilla@137.108.145.250) has left #OWL
Feb 27 14:16:41 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:16:41 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:16:56 <Elisa>	Jeremy: I would need to vote against such a proposal at the moment
Feb 27 14:17:11 <uli>	why?
Feb 27 14:17:24 <Elisa>	I have a mandate from HP to oppose this at the moment - I can see the arguments, and for now it would be a vote against
Feb 27 14:17:47 <bmotik>	Jeremy, can you say why this is so?
Feb 27 14:18:04 <Elisa>	Ian: would anyone else be in a similar position to Jeremy, who would need to vote against
Feb 27 14:18:29 <IanH>	STRAWPOLL: resolve issue-3 by having Skolem semantics in DL
Feb 27 14:18:37 <bmotik>	+1
Feb 27 14:18:37 <ewallace>	+0
Feb 27 14:18:38 <hendler>	0
Feb 27 14:18:38 <MarkusK>	+1
Feb 27 14:18:39 <pfps_>	+1 to "skolem" semantics
Feb 27 14:18:39 <IanH>	Jeremy: -1
Feb 27 14:18:40 <bcuencagrau>	+1
Feb 27 14:18:41 <JeffP>	-0
Feb 27 14:18:41 <uli>	+17
Feb 27 14:18:43 <Achille>	0
Feb 27 14:18:43 <m_schnei>	+0.99
Feb 27 14:18:44 <Zhe>	+0
Feb 27 14:18:52 <Elisa>	+0
Feb 27 14:19:02 <ivan>	0
Feb 27 14:19:22 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:19:22 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:19:43 <bmotik>	q+
Feb 27 14:19:43 *	Zakim sees jeremy, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:19:48 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:19:48 *	Zakim sees jeremy, bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:19:54 <Elisa>	Jeff: I have the impression that we had discussion about the differences in the semantics, if you have unique names assumption, it is easy to show the differences,
Feb 27 14:20:04 <Elisa>	I'm not sure what people will say at the end of the day
Feb 27 14:20:05 <uli>	Jeff, would you have an example for this?
Feb 27 14:20:10 <ivan>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 14:20:10 *	Zakim sees bmotik on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:20:16 <bmotik>	Zakim, unmute me
Feb 27 14:20:16 <Zakim>	bmotik should no longer be muted
Feb 27 14:20:19 <ivan>	ack bmotik 
Feb 27 14:20:19 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:20:25 <IanH>	ack bmotik
Feb 27 14:20:25 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:20:27 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:20:27 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 27 14:20:40 2008

Feb 27 14:20:52 <Elisa>	Boris: I don't think this is the case, especially with the unique names assumtion, since OWL doesn't support this, you would have to axiomatize this yourself
Feb 27 14:20:59 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:20:59 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:21:03 <Elisa>	Under OWL DL semantics you would have to deal with this yourself
Feb 27 14:21:42 <Elisa>	Ian: I suggest that Boris writes up a kind of precise specification of what the solution would be, in the meantime Jeremy will attempt to discuss this internally to get a view of the HP position
Feb 27 14:21:45 <bmotik>	I can write up a precise proposal, no problem
Feb 27 14:22:04 <Elisa>	If we have a complete proposal, we can move it into the issues to resolve
Feb 27 14:22:04 <bmotik>	ACTION: bmotik2 to Write up a precise proposal on how to resolve ISSUE-3
Feb 27 14:22:04 *	trackbot-ng noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
Feb 27 14:22:05 <trackbot-ng>	Created ACTION-95 - Write up a precise proposal on how to resolve ISSUE-3 [on Boris Motik - due 2008-03-05].
Feb 27 14:22:14 <bmotik>	Zakim mute me
Feb 27 14:22:28 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:22:28 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:22:38 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:22:38 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:22:40 <Elisa>	Ian: AOB?
Feb 27 14:23:14 <Elisa>	Jim: Some pieces of work get to move ahead because people in the same organization are able to make space and work on them
Feb 27 14:23:35 <Elisa>	with respect to other things, such as fragments, we should think about how to get the work done in the context of the working group,
Feb 27 14:23:41 <Elisa>	perhaps a task force to do this
Feb 27 14:23:41 <uli>	good idea: an OWLPrime task force!
Feb 27 14:23:43 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:23:43 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:23:52 <Zhe>	second Jim's proposal
Feb 27 14:24:05 <Elisa>	Jim: now that we have sort of the gist, we should get people to move forward on the work
Feb 27 14:24:31 <m_schnei>	but I will release early and often :)
Feb 27 14:24:41 <Elisa>	Ian: the way we've done this up until now was to use the wiki, admittedly we've tasked Michael to do the OWL semantics, but he was a volunteer
Feb 27 14:25:12 <uli>	q+
Feb 27 14:25:12 *	Zakim sees uli on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:25:17 <ivan>	ack uli 
Feb 27 14:25:17 *	Zakim unmutes uli
Feb 27 14:25:18 <Elisa>	I think I proposed in an email that we needed to come up with a document regarding fragments, then we can discuss how to operationalize next week
Feb 27 14:25:19 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:25:19 <uli>	ack uli
Feb 27 14:25:19 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:25:53 *	Zakim hears jeremy's hand up
Feb 27 14:25:53 <Elisa>	Uli: perhaps we could do a search for people who would be willing to work on OWL prime - we don't know who would like to put in some effort here
Feb 27 14:25:54 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:25:55 <Zhe>	q+
Feb 27 14:25:55 *	Zakim sees jeremy, Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:26:09 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:26:09 *	Zakim sees jeremy, Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:26:18 <Elisa>	Ian: this is why I sent the email, and was hoping people would step forward
Feb 27 14:26:19 <ivan>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 14:26:19 *	Zakim sees Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:26:38 <Elisa>	Jeremy: on owl prime, there is the whole patent policy issue
Feb 27 14:26:50 <hendler>	I once again reiterate my willingness to help make this happen
Feb 27 14:26:55 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:26:55 *	Zakim sees Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:27:00 <ivan>	ack Zhe 
Feb 27 14:27:00 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:27:01 <Elisa>	Ian: it would have been great to have Herman, but we have others in the WG with expertise
Feb 27 14:27:06 *	Zakim hears jeremy's hand up
Feb 27 14:27:07 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:27:07 <JeffP>	me too
Feb 27 14:27:12 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:27:12 *	Zakim sees jeremy on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:27:20 <ivan>	ack jeremy
Feb 27 14:27:20 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:27:23 <uli>	zakim, mute me
Feb 27 14:27:23 <Zakim>	uli should now be muted
Feb 27 14:27:39 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:27:39 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:27:56 <Elisa>	Jeremy: this is a very good point - it is plausible that PD* has patent protection from Philips - we should be able to check this as it would have been published by now
Feb 27 14:28:13 *	m_schnei is afraid of this situation
Feb 27 14:28:26 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:28:26 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:28:27 <Elisa>	Ian: we haven't necessarily decided that it would be based on PD*
Feb 27 14:28:46 <Elisa>	Jim: I'm not necessarily against PD*
Feb 27 14:29:05 <Elisa>	Ian: I'll resend this email and people can respond that they would like to work on this after the telecom
Feb 27 14:29:06 <Zakim>	-jeremy
Feb 27 14:29:09 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:29:09 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:29:09 <Zhe>	q+
Feb 27 14:29:10 *	Zakim sees Zhe on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:29:17 <ivan>	ack Zhe 
Feb 27 14:29:17 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:29:39 <Elisa>	Zhe: I just want to clarify that the set of rules have to be complete?
Feb 27 14:30:00 <sandro>	Chair: Ian
Feb 27 14:30:05 <Elisa>	Ian: I don't think we can figure this out today, but it's a good point for people to figure out once they start working on the document
Feb 27 14:30:05 <IanH>	q?
Feb 27 14:30:05 *	Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
Feb 27 14:30:15 <Elisa>	Ian: any other other business
Feb 27 14:30:18 <bmotik>	Bye
Feb 27 14:30:18 <uli>	bye
Feb 27 14:30:19 <ivan>	scribenick: Elisa
Feb 27 14:30:19 <JeffP>	bye
Feb 27 14:30:22 <Zhe>	bye
Feb 27 14:30:24 <m_schnei>	bye
Feb 27 14:30:25 <sandro>	Elisa, please stay on IRC for a moment.
Feb 27 14:30:25 <Zakim>	-uli
Feb 27 14:30:26 <Zakim>	-Evan_Wallace
Feb 27 14:30:27 <Zakim>	-Jeff_Pan
Feb 27 14:30:28 <Zakim>	-bmotik
Feb 27 14:30:28 <--	bmotik has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.13/20060414])
Feb 27 14:30:29 <Zakim>	-MarkusK
Feb 27 14:30:29 *	Elisa ok
Feb 27 14:30:33 <Zakim>	-pfps_
Feb 27 14:30:37 <Zakim>	-hendler
Feb 27 14:30:39 <--	MarkusK (markusk@87.177.183.164) has left #owl (Konversation terminated!)
Feb 27 14:30:42 <Zakim>	-DougL
Feb 27 14:30:49 <Zakim>	-m_schnei
Feb 27 14:30:49 <--	bcuencagrau has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Feb 27 14:30:56 <Zakim>	-bcuencagrau
Feb 27 14:30:57 <Zakim>	-Achille
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Feb 27 14:31:15 <Zakim>	-Zhe
Feb 27 14:33:15 <sandro>	Elisa, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.27/Minutes is now ready for you to clean up.
Feb 27 14:33:15 <--	DougL has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
Feb 27 14:34:03 *	Elisa thanks sandro -- should I do so and then email/call you to finalize?
Feb 27 14:34:12 <sandro>	I don't need to be in the loop.
Feb 27 14:34:17 *	Elisa ok
Feb 27 14:34:45 <sandro>	e-mail the group when you think it's ready.
Feb 27 14:35:32 <Zakim>	-Sandro
Feb 27 14:35:35 <Zakim>	-IanH
Feb 27 14:35:36 <Zakim>	-Elisa_Kendall
Feb 27 14:35:38 <Zakim>	-Ivan
Feb 27 14:35:39 <Zakim>	SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
Feb 27 14:35:39 <--	ivan has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121])
Feb 27 14:35:40 <Zakim>	Attendees were pfps_, bmotik, Elisa_Kendall, m_schnei, Evan_Wallace, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, +7.955.aaaa, jeremy, uli, Ivan, +0190827aabb, MartinD, Vipul_Kashyap, +1.512.342.aacc,
Feb 27 14:35:43 <Zakim>	... Carsten, DougL, Sandro, +1.518.276.aadd, Jeff_Pan, IanH, hendler, Zhe, Achille
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Received on Thursday, 28 February 2008 11:41:11 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 28 February 2008 11:41:11 GMT