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Re: ANN: Draft text fragment ontology for NIF 2.0

From: Sebastian Hellmann <hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de>
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 01:30:51 +0200
Message-ID: <502599AB.1060406@informatik.uni-leipzig.de>
To: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
CC: public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>
Dear Robert,
I am really surprised of your reaction. I think you are seeing this too 
narrow-minded and you are focusing too much on the '#' syntax, not on 
the semantics.
Maybe it helps to cite Paolo in his email from 18.07.2012 16:07
> I was looking at the section
> http://www.openannotation.org/spec/extension/#Selector  and we don't mention
> subclassing the FragmentSelector. I think it could make sense.
> The overall idea is to agree on common shared selectors so any proposal
> should be considered.
So I guess, you are considering building something in this direction and 
NIF is also.

If you think about it for a second, there is a whole group of people who 
have thought about selecting fragments of web resources for decades. 
Eventually, they even came up with standards to encode what can be 
selected (semantics) and how that is done (syntax). This is the reason, 
why I included uri@w3.org,
Please don't get distracted, because they decided to use a compact 
syntax behind a '#' , the underlying question is the same. The 
difference between:
<_:Target1>
    oax:hasSource <http://example.com/example.txt>;
    oax:hasSelector <_:Selector1> .
<_:Selector1> a oax:TextOffsetSelector ;
    oax:offset 44 ;
    oax:range 15 .

and
<http://example.com/example.txt#char=44,15>  .
is a mere syntactic one and they select the same content.  The 
transformation might not be lossless with OA being more expressive, of 
course.

If my judgment isn't completely off,  the content selection topic also 
makes up a respectable part off this list, for example:

XML/XPointer related:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Aug/0039.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Jul/0018.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Jul/0005.html

Mediatype text:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Jul/0024.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Aug/0017.html
The last link was your own mail:
> For example all occurrences of the word "annotate" in any textual
> resource,
I would answer this with 
http://dret.net/netdret/docs/wilde-ht2005-textfrag.pdf

For the features wished for CSV:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Jun/0008.html
I would look at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hausenblas-csv-fragment-00


Before I have to hear from you again, that OA will *never* use 
fragments, let me ascertain you, that I am looking for common semantics, 
*not* syntax. This is also the reason, why it is separated in our wiki:
http://wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/Issue:_Syntax_for_NIF_URIs
http://wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/Issue:_Features_for_NIF_URIs

With your TextOffsetSelector you have gone into the direction of 
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5147, maybe you could include 
oax:beginLine and oax:endLine next. We can collect all properties 
together in the fragment.ttl and later you can just change the @prefix 
and NIF and OA will have the same semantics, but different syntax. I 
already renamed beginIndex and endIndex into offset/range. There are a 
lot of caltrops ahead. E.g. the XPointer/Xointer scheme was never 
registered.

So don't worry, there is enough work for all of us, even if we work 
together on this and share it.

Kind regards,
Sebastian

Am 10.08.2012 18:47, schrieb Robert Sanderson:
> A meta-comment:
>
> If the intention is to work towards alignment with the Open Annotation
> model, then by all means please bring up issues.  However the below
> seems quite off topic to me, especially given that the Open Annotation
> model does not use fragment URIs directly, as already discussed.
> Therefore this isn't an issue for us at all, by design.
>
> The NLP2RDF list seems a more appropriate venue for this discussion,
> which I assume any interested parties are able to join?
>
> Rob
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Sebastian Hellmann
> <hellmann@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> wrote:
>> Dear lists (nlp2rdf, uri@w3c, open annotation@w3c),
>>
>> we would like to announce a very early first draft of the fragment ontology
>> for the NLP Interchange Format (NIF) as a basis for discussion.
>>
>> We do this with the following motivation:
>> 1. We think that you might have had similar thoughts and encountered similar
>> problems.
>> 2. We would like NIF 2.0 to be designed to be interoperable from the start.
>> 3. There are some problems that may be really difficult to tackle and we
>> everybody's ideas and  help to do it right.
>>
>> Especially, the question whether:
>>
>> <http://nlp2rdf.lod2.eu/usecases/plaintext.txt#char=0,> a <rfc5147Selection>
>> ;
>>
>> owl:sameAs <http://nlp2rdf.lod2.eu/usecases/plaintext.txt>  .
>>
>>
>> To collect feedback efficiently, we have deployed this state-of-the-art web
>> ontology editor. Please look at the most simple ontology first. It is called
>> *fragment.ttl* (inf and val are for reasoning) :
>> https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B1Mk5ouIspH1N3QxMFFzVlZLbVk/edit?pli=1
>> Don't hesitate to comment on the lists or the document. The ontology are
>> also available online, but not synced with the Google Doc.
>>
>> We started to make a collection of use cases for NIF 2.0, please add your
>> use case and we will try to honor it during the development of NIF 2.0 .
>> http://wiki.nlp2rdf.org/wiki/Use_cases_and_requirements#Use_cases
>>
>> All the best,
>> Sebastian on behalf of the NLP2RDF community:
>> http://nlp2rdf.org/involved-people
>>
>> --
>> Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann
>> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
>> Events:
>>    * http://sabre2012.infai.org/mlode (Leipzig, Sept. 23-24-25, 2012)
>>    * http://wole2012.eurecom.fr (*Deadline: July 31st 2012*)
>> Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://dbpedia.org
>> Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann
>> Research Group: http://aksw.org


-- 
Dipl. Inf. Sebastian Hellmann
Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
Events:
   * http://sabre2012.infai.org/mlode (Leipzig, Sept. 23-24-25, 2012)
   * http://wole2012.eurecom.fr (*Deadline: July 31st 2012*)
Projects: http://nlp2rdf.org , http://dbpedia.org
Homepage: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianHellmann
Research Group: http://aksw.org
Received on Friday, 10 August 2012 23:31:27 GMT

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