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Re: Selection Filtering

From: Paolo Ciccarese <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 18:20:04 -0400
Message-ID: <CAFPX2kCJWUt78V4evbtyHw8TjjPaXhNeRHprNdHJzNTzHc1JCg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
Cc: James Smith <jgsmith@gmail.com>, public-openannotation <public-openannotation@w3.org>
Maybe we just need both ways?

In your specific example I feel your first proposal makes more sense.
The zip file is the resource and the XHTML files are parts of it and they
don't seem having autonomous life.
If they do they would probably get a URI?

But for classic HTML pages where Images have a URI I would go the other
way.

(still brainstorming)


On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:13 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>wrote:

> Does the hasContext approach (eg climbing up rather than drilling
> down) deal with situations when there's really embedded content, or
> only resources that are referenced but have their own unique URIs?
>
> For example, the use case I have in mind is an ePub document
> (basically a zip file that contains HTML and related content) that has
> a URI, but the chapter xhtml files within it do not.  And similarly
> the images referenced from those chapters don't have their own URIs,
> they're just named bitstreams within the zip.
>
> I don't immediately see it, if it does.  And if not, how would we go
> about providing a solution for the use case?
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Paolo Ciccarese
> <paolo.ciccarese@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I am dealing with the same use case exactly now.
> > I like Rob's first solution but I agree the image is buried in the
> selector.
> > The oa:hasSelector {FileSel1,ImgSel1,Svg1} does not communicate the
> message
> > clearly.
> >
> > I would pick Jim's solution as it is simple and in line with the
> discussions
> > we had in the last weeks. Christian Morbidoni was suggesting a similar
> > approach in a previous email exchange:
> >
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-openannotation/2012Jul/0038.html
> >
> > However, I am not sure if, with that, you can distinguish in between the
> > fact that the image has been simply annotated within a context and the
> fact
> > that the annotation makes sense only within that context. In the first
> case,
> > ignoring the context is probably fine. In the second case, it is probably
> > not. Probably adding a subproperty could be enough but I was wondering if
> > that approach has the potential of scaling to more complex filtering
> > criteria.
> >
> > Paolo
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:29 PM, James Smith <jgsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've been thinking about how to bite, assuming I'm thinking about the
> same
> >> problem. I've been considering how to specify that a particular
> annotation
> >> is about a resource when that resource is considered in the context of
> >> another resource.
> >>
> >> This can be done with an additional selector-like property:
> >> oax:hasContext. This could have the same target as oa:hasTarget, so
> anything
> >> that can be a target can be a context.
> >>
> >> For example, if I wanted to annotate an image as it is embedded in an
> html
> >> document, I could have the following triples:
> >>
> >> Anno1 a oa:Annotation ;
> >>   oa:hasTarget Spec1 .
> >> Spec1 a oa:SpecificResource ;
> >>   oa:hasSource IMG ;
> >>   oax:hasContext Sel1 .
> >> Sel1 a oa:SpecificResource ;
> >>   oa:hasSource HTML .
> >>
> >> I'm not sure how to interpret the oa:hasSelector {FileSel1,ImgSel1,Svg1}
> >> pieces of the second example to know how to transform them into a
> similar
> >> form as above.
> >>
> >> I like this form because I can ignore the oax:hasContext piece and still
> >> have a good chance at getting the annotation in the right place. For
> >> example, if I am annotating a video embedded on a particular page, all I
> >> have to add is the oax:hasContext piece to state that it is in the
> context
> >> of that resource, instead of annotating that resource and hoping I can
> >> select the video within that resource (and hope that such a selection
> >> doesn't have to change due to edits in the embedding document).
> >>
> >> -- Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 9, 2012, at 4:56 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > No one seems to be biting, so I'll throw out a proposal for a solution
> >> > (maybe)  :)
> >> >
> >> > Instead of considering the annotation to be on the lowest level object
> >> > and then climbing back up the hierarchy (annotate the image, in the
> >> > html) instead we can use the regular structure of annotating the
> >> > highest level resource and drilling down with Selectors to the most
> >> > appropriate part (annotate the html, select the image).
> >> >
> >> > This would work in all of the cases described, and often with just
> >> > FragmentSelector.
> >> > eg:
> >> >
> >> > Anno1 a oa:Annotation ;
> >> >    oa:hasTarget Spec1 .
> >> > Spec1 a oa:SpecificResource ;
> >> >    oa:hasSource HTML ;
> >> >    oa:hasSelector Sel1 .
> >> > Sel1 a oa:FragmentSelector ;     // oax:XpointerFragmentSelector ?
> >> >    rdf:value "xpointer(/xpath/to/img[@href="Img1"])" .
> >> >
> >> > Anno2 a oa:Annotation ;
> >> >    oa:hasTarget Spec2 .
> >> > Spec2 a oa:SpecificResource ;
> >> >    oa:hasSource ePub1 ;
> >> >    oa:hasSelector CompSel1 .
> >> > CompSel1 a oa:CompositeSelector ;
> >> >    oa:hasSelector FileSel1 ;    //  select xhtml file in zip
> >> >    oa:hasSelector ImgSel1 ;    //  select image in xhtml
> >> >    oa:hasSelector Svg1 .         //  select SVG area of image
> >> > (...)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The main issue is that the URI of the component resource (eg the
> >> > image) is not easily accessible, if it has one.  In the ePub case, it
> >> > doesn't have its own HTTP URI, but in the regular web page it does.
> >> >
> >> > Thoughts?
> >> >
> >> > Rob
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Robert Sanderson <azaroth42@gmail.com
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> Starting a new thread on this topic for ease of tracking :)
> >> >>
> >> >> In other a couple of other threads, the desire to describe an
> >> >> annotation which targets a resource in some particular context was
> >> >> expressed.
> >> >> For example, to annotate an image only as it appears in a particular
> >> >> html page.
> >> >>
> >> >> The base requirement seems to me to be:
> >> >>    Annotate [part of] (resource) as it is used in (resource)
> >> >>
> >> >> This extends quickly to:
> >> >>    Annotate [part of] (resource) as it is used in [part of]
> (resource)
> >> >> For example, annotate an image as it is used on page 4 of a PDF.
> >> >>
> >> >> This could mean arbitrary nesting, to allow for annotating an image
> in
> >> >> an html file in an ePub document.
> >> >> The same should be applicable for bodies as well as targets, in order
> >> >> to extract contents from container resources.
> >> >>
> >> >> Is there a requirement for differentiating between the resource, and
> >> >> the resource used in some container resource?
> >> >> For example, is it important to be able to annotate an image, but not
> >> >> have the annotation appear when that image is embedded within an HTML
> >> >> page?
> >> >> For annotating non-rendering resources (such as CSS, Javascript etc)
> >> >> it might be important?
> >> >>
> >> >> Is there a requirement for sets of container resources, or is it
> >> >> sufficient to simply create new annotations? For example, this image
> >> >> in these 3 HTML pages.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> A second application of filtering, that makes me very nervous, is:
> >> >>    Annotate all occurrences of (selection) in (set of resources)
> >> >>
> >> >> For example all occurrences of the word "annotate" in any textual
> >> >> resource, all occurrences of the top left pixel in JPEG images, all
> >> >> occurrences of the first line of text in all copies of Shakespeare's
> >> >> "Hamlet".
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Before we start thinking about approaches and solutions, it would be
> >> >> great to firmly scope what it is that we're trying to solve :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >>
> >> >> Rob
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Dr. Paolo Ciccarese
http://www.paolociccarese.info/
Biomedical Informatics Research & Development
Instructor of Neurology at Harvard Medical School
Assistant in Neuroscience at Mass General Hospital
+1-857-366-1524 (mobile)   +1-617-768-8744 (office)

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Received on Thursday, 9 August 2012 22:20:34 GMT

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