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RE: Framework Notes

From: <Lauri.K.Hirvonen@nokia.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:30:26 +0300
Message-ID: <E492B65354B30C48BD872C8A2895A6A30525F57A@esebe101.NOE.Nokia.com>
To: <boyera@w3.org>, <renjish.kumar@gmail.com>
Cc: <public-mw4d@w3.org>

I'll like to add to these Stephane's comments that

1) cost of use (compared to the benefits of use) is critical.

2) Total cost of use (I mean mobile phone here) is critical
as the income level in developing countries are usually very low.
I know, many companies, including Nokia, is working hard to
lower the total ownership of the mobile phone for the users.

3) To create needed mobile services, you normaly need to have
PC or some server technology. That is costly and normally
not available in developing countries. This has led to
a development in Nokia, that you can use the mobile phone
as server. So your mobile service can be run from mobile
phone. Nokia has released a beta-version of this mobile
server. 

4) To develop these mobile services you often need a PC
(or Mac) to code the new service application. This has
led to development, that you can develop a mobile service 
application by your mobile phone. This is in development.
I expect the announcement to be done later this year.  

Br. Lauri

>-----Original Message-----
>From: public-mw4d-request@w3.org 
>[mailto:public-mw4d-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of ext Stephane Boyera
>Sent: 02 July, 2008 21:58
>To: Renjish Kumar
>Cc: public-mw4d@w3.org
>Subject: Re: Framework Notes
>
>
>Hello Renjish,
>
>>   Sorry to interrupt the ongoing discussion on illiteracy 
>and internet. 
>> It is indeed interesting but I just seem to get the idea that we are 
>> again beginning yet another X4D forum with presumptions and 
>> over-simplifications. As you know, many industry players and 
>industry 
>> bodies have ongoing projects and initiatives focusing on 
>> developing/emerging countries handling different aspects of an issue 
>> so complex that discussion without a common framework might 
>lead us nowhere.
>
>I would be happy to learn about existing initiatives if you know any ?
>I know that lots of organizations are funding reports or 
>projects (just to cite some: the world bank, UN foundation, 
>GSMA development funds,...), but i'm not aware at this point 
>of an existing initiative looking at the barriers and 
>potential solutions of leveraging the number of content and 
>services available on mobile phones targeted at social and 
>economic development. So, i would be happy to learn about 
>related initiatives with who we could cooperate, or at least 
>as you say avoid reinventing the wheel.
>
>> Some of the presumptions that I can gather based on the 
>discussions here:
>>  
>> 1. By default, everyone in the emerging/market is eager to use the 
>> mobile web.
>
>that a strong statement. To the best of my knowledge, the 
>technological aspect is not key. what i mean here is that 
>people are eager to use services that are helping them in 
>their life. Being mobile web, sms, voice,... they don't really 
>care, as far as the service is relevant, usable and useful imho.
>
>> 2. Only issues stopping them from using mobile web or for 
>that matter 
>> Web are technological or economics in nature
>i'm not sure i agree again here.
>My own vision is that for now, there is not on the Web 
>informations and services that are either usable, accessible, 
>or even existing that are really useful for targeted people. 
>while i guess you could find any bus or train schedule for any 
>destination in europe, you can hardly find this information 
>about eg rural areas of Uganda, and this is something that 
>could surely be useful to people. So, clearly accessing 
>information is a problem, but availatities of relevant 
>information is also a problem, and most probably a bigger one. 
>So clearly leveraging the development of relevant 
>informations, and empowering people to develop the service 
>their community need is very important.
>
>> 3. Developing/Emerging markets are homogenous in nature with 
>the same 
>> economic status, literacy rate, aspirations and culture
>
>again i doubt it. just a small example: in latin america, 
>where most of the population speak spanish, the language is 
>not a real problem, and for isntance it is quite easy to 
>develop voice service, because generating spanish prompt is 
>easy, and doing voice recognition on spanish is also quite 
>easy. Now if from your observation you state that voice 
>applications are very powerful, then you move to india or 
>indonesia you are completely out: no TTS in most local 
>dialects, no speech recognition and so on. If you move to 
>Africa, where people are reluctant to talk to a machine, you 
>have another kind of problem. So i really doubt that emerging 
>markets are homoegenous for the factor you stating.
>
>> I do not know if the MW4D IG is working on a framework or if some 
>> other forum might have already done this. If not, then we should, in 
>> my opinion, strive to do the following:
>>  
>> 1. Framework: Create a framework document as the first deliverable 
>> with the following definitions:
>>                    - defining the scope of mobile web
>>                    - a classification of the heterogenous 
>nature of an 
>> emerging/developing market.
>
>For sure, we need to work first, and that's my idea, on a vision
>document: what this group is willing to achieve, on short term 
>like 1 year, and on a longer term. It is clear for us at W3C 
>that this group is the beginning of a bigger activity in the 
>future, but we need to start small, and really idenitfy the 
>key apsects to work on, before engging greater forces.
>
>> Unless we do this, we cannot have a constructive discussion 
>that leads 
>> to tangible results. In other words, we might again end up 
>being "just 
>> another project on development" with lots of nice and 
>informative 200 
>> page deliverables, but creating little practical change in reality.
>
>i completely agree with you, and my own vision is exactly on 
>practical results, not doing a kind of state of the art, or 
>yet another report. 
>The aim of this group is clearly for W3C and/or other 
>internation organizations to understand what are the key 
>actions to launch in the future to really exploit the full 
>potential of mobile phones as an ICT-platform.
>
>> 2. Leverage and Liaison: There is already an enormous wealth of 
>> information generated by other forums such as ICT4D, GSMA, W3C and 
>> industry players. Leverage the existing literature and liaison with 
>> ongoing efforts to avoid reinventing the wheel.
>
>i totally agree here. If you can provide links to those 
>forums, i would be happy to list them. That said, my specific 
>view, which has been largely confirmed during the workshop in 
>Brazil, is that for now different players have different 
>views, and are acting in their corner: 
>international organizations like the World Bank, UN* (foundation, DP,
>...) and other at that level, have a specific view (providing 
>very heigh level platform). industry layers at GSMA for 
>instance have another view (focused on technological aspect), 
>NGOs who are trying to have an impact at a smaller scale have 
>other kind of views.
>I've the hope that in this forum we could gather people from 
>all these different communities in order to build a shared 
>vision of the future, and a shared understanding on what need 
>to be done. Each actor has its role to play.
>
>> So, we should not be disappointed if a similar rate of 
>adoption is not 
>> seen for the mobile Web/ Fixed Internet unless there is one such 
>> killer app. Also, we should resist the temptation to 
>prescribe killer 
>> services/applications to the population. This will only add 
>to the failure.
>i again totally agree here. I don't believe there will be a 
>killer service or application. But i believe that it is 
>possible to create an enabling context for relevant services 
>and content to appear.
>I don't believe honnestly that the problem is connecting 
>people only, but again is for them to have relvant information 
>that would justify investment in time, in learning and in 
>cost. I don't think there is content today on the web that 
>justify these investments from targeted people.
>
>Stephane
>
>-- 
>Stephane Boyera		stephane@w3.org
>W3C				+33 (0) 4 92 38 78 34
>BP 93				fax: +33 (0) 4 92 38 78 22
>F-06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex,		
>France
>
>
Received on Thursday, 3 July 2008 14:45:09 UTC

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