Re: Trill fonts (Whole step trill, and Half-step trill, ligatures, and turns?)

Dear Daniel
>>My feeling is that "W" and"1/2" or "HT" don't belong in SMuFL as they can easilybe written using any regular text font
Of course, "W" "1/2" themselves can be created with regular fonts. But the suggested combination of the fonts are very difficult to make/execute in notation programs (that is why people, including me, makes own fonts for them).

My view is that it would help scoring community a lot if such trills appear in the recommended ligature sections of Common ornaments "4.46."
Though current SMuFL doesn't address (excuse me if I am wrong),  "W" is U+0057 and "½" is U+00BD. So, the recommended ligature would be "uni0057_uniE566" for a trill with "W" on top, and "uni00BD_uniE566" for a trill with "½" on top, just like trills with sharp/flat/natural.

Now, if fonts for recommended ligature needs to be within SMuFL specification, then, oh well....


Sincerely Yours

----------
Kentaro Sato (Ken-P)
Composer & Conductor
Wiseman Project LLC/GK (President & CEO)
http://www.wisemanproject.com
kentaro.sato@yahoo.com
----------

      From: Daniel Spreadbury <D.Spreadbury@steinberg.de>
 To: Kentaro Sato (Ken-P) <kentaro.sato@yahoo.com> 
Cc: "public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org" <public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org>
 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 12:50 AM
 Subject: Re: Trill fonts (Whole step trill, and Half-step trill, ligatures, and turns?)
   
Hi Kentaro,

My feeling is that "W" and"1/2" or "HT" don't belong in SMuFL as they can easilybe written using any regular text font. I am interested to hear in theopinions of others in the community in case they disagree with me.

Daniel



From:       "Kentaro Sato(Ken-P)" <kentaro.sato@yahoo.com>
To:       Daniel Spreadbury <D.Spreadbury@steinberg.de>,"public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org" <public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org>
Date:       10/11/2017 16:45
Subject:       Re: Trill fonts(Whole step trill, and Half-step trill, ligatures, and  turns?)



Hi.

I had scoring sessions in London last month at Abbey Roadand AIR, and had a chance to talk to some music prep company people andlibrarians there about the issue. 

Their responses are almost the same.
1) They would like to see the special font to be addedfor whole note and half note trills. They are rather tired of specifyingtrill note with small or parenthesized note, or creating special combinationof font using whatever the special function in notation software. Justone click away to correct trill indicatin would speed things up greatly,especially for no-key concert notation, and scores with a lot of transposedinstruments.  

2) "W" for a whole note trill and "1/2"for a half note trill seems to be accepted indication. "H" wouldbe less common, and for sight reading, "W" and "1/2"are so different looking, the players seem to prefer them. 

3) "W" and "1/2" are better to beappeared above the trill sign just like sharp/flat/natural, and not followedby.

4) They love to see that notation softwares to correctlyinterpret trill intervals with these signs for playback. ;)


Sincerely Yours

----------
Kentaro Sato (Ken-P)
Composer & Conductor
Wiseman Project LLC/GK (President & CEO)
http://www.wisemanproject.com
kentaro.sato@yahoo.com
----------


From: Daniel Spreadbury <D.Spreadbury@steinberg.de>
To: "public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org" <public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org>
Cc: Kentaro Sato (Ken-P) <kentaro.sato@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: Trill fonts (Whole step trill, and Half-step trill, ligatures,and turns?)

Thanks for raising this issue, Kentaro.

I agree that these notations are used in commercial copying. I believethat they have arisen out of the fact that scoring software cannot typicallydisplay the appropriate accidental along with the trill based on the noteto which the trill is applied, and the current transposition (which mayresult in the same trill needing to display different accidentals in differentcontexts), and this notation is a way of displaying the trill intervalin a simple and reliable way.

The question, I think, is whether it makes sense to add "W","H", and "1/2" to the 'Ornaments' range (or a new supplementalrange if necessary), given that these characters are widely available inany text font and it is possible, if not probable, that the user wouldwant the font for these characters to follow the text fonts otherwise inuse for the score.

My inclination is that we should not add these glyphs to SMuFL on thisbasis, but of course there is precedent for doing it the other way (e.g.the "D.C." et al. characters that were inherited from the existingmusical symbols Unicode range).

I welcome feedback from the community about this issue.

Daniel



From:        "KentaroSato (Ken-P)" <kentaro.sato@yahoo.com>
To:        "public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org"<public-music-notation-contrib@w3.org>
Date:        28/09/201716:05
Subject:        Trillfonts (Whole step trill, and Half-step trill, ligatures, and  turns?)



Dear All

As the number of film/game/TV cues written in concert C key has increased,many scoring composers and orchestrators have started to use trill notationwhich specifies the interval (a whole step or a half step) rather thanusing sharp/natural/flat or with a small destination note. I had foundthis whole-step and half-step trill notation to be very useful, and I wouldlike the community to think this issue. 

The main idea is to use "tr" with "W" "H"or "1/2".  "W" is for whole-note trill, and "H"or "1/2" are for half-step trill. 

I have personally use "W" and "1/2," and put thoseabove the "tr" since that use less horizontal space. 
However, I have seen "W" "H" or "1/2" placedafter "tr." 

So, my questions are

1) Whether this issue to be considered or not.
2) If yes, whether "W" "H" or "1/2" are bestway for specifying trill intervals for international music community inmind. 
3) Where those additional characters to be placed? Above "tr",next to "tr", or other?
4) Whether these additional characters to be used for "turn notation"for recommended ligatures. Please refer to recommended ligatures at https://w3c.github.io/smufl/gitbook/tables/common-ornaments.html

Thank you for your consideration, and here is examples!



 
Sincerely Yours

----------
Kentaro Sato (Ken-P)
Composer & Conductor
Wiseman Project LLC/GK (President & CEO)
http://www.wisemanproject.com

kentaro.sato@yahoo.com

----------



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