W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org > November 2012

[Minutes] editing call 2012-11-27 ...

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 18:08:50 +0100
Message-ID: <50B4F3A2.8070905@w3.org>
To: "public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org" <public-multilingualweb-lt@w3.org>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html and below as 
text. Thanks a lot to Dave, David, Jirka, Karl, Pablo and Yves for 
making the extra effort. We went through the normative sections 3-5. 
Then we moved the sections about HTML to 6-7 and went through these 
sections. Data category sections are not done yet.

We didn't make any major changes like adding or removing attributes, 
except provenance global rules, see
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item02
Yves will make an update to the provenance section, probably also taking
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0218.html
into account, and send it to the list.

Tomorrow and on Thursday there will further calls, see
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#item22
Wednesday start 1 p.m. UTC, Thursday start 2 p.m. UTC.

Best,

Felix




    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                           MLW-LT editing call

27 Nov 2012

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc

Attendees

    Present
           karl, yves, felix, Yves_, dave, david, jirka, pnietoca

    Regrets
    Chair
           felix

    Scribe
           fsasaki

Contents

      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]work plan / agenda check
          2. [5]Global rules for provenance discussion
          3. [6]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/
             drafts/its20/its20.html#notation-terminology
          4. [7]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/
             drafts/its20/its20.html#def-schemalanguage
          5. [8]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/
             drafts/its20/its20.html#def-datacat
          6. [9]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/
             drafts/its20/its20.html#def-selection
          7. [10]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage
          8. [11]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance
          9. [12]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-schema
         10. [13]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html##conformance-product-processi
             ng-expectations
         11. [14]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-html-proc
             essing-expectations
         12. [15]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#its-processing
         13. [16]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategory-locations
         14. [17]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html##selection-global
         15. [18]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt
             /drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors
         16. [19]"5.4 Link to External Rules"
         17. [20]"5.5 Precedence between Selections"
         18. [21]"5.6 Associating ITS Data Categories with Existing
             Markup"
         19. [22]5.7 Conversion to NIF
         20. [23]"5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"
         21. [24]test suite
         22. [25]next call
      * [26]Summary of Action Items
      __________________________________________________________

work plan / agenda check

    waiting for people to come ...

Global rules for provenance discussion

    basis for discussion is
    [27]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-
    lt/2012Nov/0186.html

      [27] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0186.html

    dave: yves' points are correct
    ... there is no way of writing a global pointer rule which is
    aware of values in the xliff
    ... even if we could figure out the xpath, you would need
    something in the rule to filter out things in the phase group
    that did not map to "revision"
    ... because you cannot differentiate phase groups in the way
    needed
    ... this topic, plus toolsRef issues
    ... plus if you want to do mapping between phase group and
    rules, you need more than pointer rules
    ... I'd say let's get rid of pointer rules
    ... appart of standoff pointers

    [28]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#provenance-global

      [28] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#provenance-global

    "provenanceRecordsRefPointer"

    everything else would be deleted. That is: "personPointer,
    personRefPointer, orgPointer, orgRefPointer, toolPointer,
    toolRefPointer, revPersonPointer, revPersonRefPointer,
    revOrgPointer, revOrgRefPointer, revToolPointer,
    revToolRefPointer and provRefPointer"

    <scribe> ACTION: jirka to take
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the
    ITS 2.0 schema into account [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Take
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the
    ITS 2.0 schema into account [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].

      [31] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02

    <pnietoca> sorry i'm late

[32]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#notation-terminology

      [32] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#notation-terminology

    drop relax ng namespace, not used in the spec

    added html namespace

[33]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#def-schemalanguage

      [33] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-schemalanguage

    dropping complete section

[34]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#def-datacat

      [34] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-datacat

    "The concept of a data category is independent of its
    implementation in an XML environment" > The concept of a data
    category is independent of its implementation in an XML and
    HTML environment"

[35]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#def-selection

      [35] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#def-selection

    "parts of an XML document " > "parts of an XML or HTML
    document"

    "Selection relies on the information that is given in the XML
    Information Set [XML Infoset]. ITS applications MAY implement
    inclusion mechanisms such as XInclude or DITA's [DITA 1.0]
    conref."

    drop the paragraph

[36]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#iri-usage

      [36] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to update list or IRI attributes at
    [37]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#iri-usage [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]

      [37] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Update list or IRI attributes
    at
    [39]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#iri-usage [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].

      [39] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

    action-326: not needed, handled during editing call

    <trackbot> ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at
    [40]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#iri-usage notes added

      [40] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

    close action-326

    <trackbot> ACTION-326 Update list or IRI attributes at
    [41]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#iri-usage closed

      [41] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage

    <scribe> dropped attribute list, reffering now only to RELAX NG
    schema and the anyURI data types

[42]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#conformance

      [42] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance

    make sure that everything will say "HTML" or "HTML5"?

    jirka: w3c working group said they will use html versioning
    ... to avoid perception that ITS cannot be applied to HTML6

    david: future proof is good
    ... but it is not valid HTML4
    ... you could say "HTML5 and higher"

    karl: could say HTML and in an introduction we say "HTML is
    defined by HTML5 or its successor"

    added a subsection in the terminology section, see
    www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.
    html##def-html

[43]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#conformance-product-schema

      [43] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-schema

    "[Ed. note: Below statement about schemas is wrong if the ITS
    schemas will be normative.]": deleting note

[44]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html##conformance-product-processing-expectations

      [44] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html

    "[Ed. note: All traces of HTML has to be removed if we will
    proceed with CT 3 and HTML+ITS CC.]": note from Jirka

    everyone is happy with separate html confirmance type, so can
    remove note

    deleting all traces of HTML and HTML5 in this section, since
    there is now a separate conformacne type for html5

    <Yves_> [45]https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite

      [45] https://github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite

[46]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#conformance-product-html-processing-expectations

      [46] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conformance-product-html-processing-expectations

    discussed "processing expecations" vs "processing
    requirements", might change terminology (not normative def)
    during last call

    <scribe> ACTION: Jirka to go through document and replace HTML5
    > HTML [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Go through document and replace
    HTML5 > HTML [on Jirka Kosek - due 2012-12-04].

[48]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#its-processing

      [48] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#its-processing

[49]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#datacategory-locations

      [49] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategory-locations

    discussion on "standoff markup", related to "location", but
    somehow different, not added here

[50]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html##selection-global

      [50] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html

    delete ruby mentions throughout section 5.2

    "The content model of span permits arbitrary nesting of ruby
    markup, since the rt element can contain span. An application
    of ruby, however, MUST not use such arbitrary nesting.":
    deleted, ruby not needed here

[51]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/i
ts20.html#selectors

      [51] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#selectors

    "The following attributes point to existing information:":
    deleted pointer attributes not needed anymore

    scribe: after the "pointer in provenacne" discussion today

    "5.3.3 CSS Selectors"

    "5.3.4 Additional query languages"

    "5.3.5 Variables in selectors"

"5.4 Link to External Rules"

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to create example with rules element in
    sec. 5.4 - due 15 december [recorded in
    [52]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-328 - create example with rules
    element in sec. 5.4 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].

"5.5 Precedence between Selections"

    "Implicit Local selection in documents" > not inherited local
    selection is meant?

    "Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via local
    ITS markup in documents

    "Implicit Local selection in documents" > Selection via
    explicit (that is not inherited) local ITS markup in documents

    keep as is, may clarify during LC phase

    <pnietoca> the same happens in point 7.5

    <pnietoca> so if you're going to change it you have to change
    both

    tx, pnietoca, will take that into account during LC too

"5.6 Associating ITS Data Categories with Existing Markup"

    <pnietoca> sorry folks I have to leave, besides my microphone
    it's not working I don't know why!, I'm trying to speak but I
    can't

    <pnietoca> I hope to have it fixed next time

    sure, thanks for being here, pnietoca!

    <pnietoca> anyway I 'll send a number of misprints and other
    things I noticed during the revision

    <pnietoca> to the list

    <pnietoca> cheers, bye!

    discussing position of sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5"

    <daveL> suggest text for last note in 5.5, change "and these
    are overridden via local markup." to "which are in turn
    overridden by local markup"

    <scribe> done

    sec 7 "Using ITS Markup in HTML5" is now sec 6, old sec 6 is
    sec 7

    sec 8 about xhtml now also moved, is new sec 7, old sec 6 is
    sec 8

5.7 Conversion to NIF

    remove mentions of ontology

    1 hour break

    <Yves_> Sorry: i wasn't able to do diddly-squat on updating the
    provenance section

    [53]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#conversion-to-nif

      [53] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#conversion-to-nif

"5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"

    dave, felix - need a running list of all the MUST statements
    and make sure that we have a test

test suite

    "The data category identifier MUST be one of the following
    identifiers" example of a statement that needs testing to

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to come up with running list of MUST
    statements for testing - due december 15 [recorded in
    [54]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - come up with running list of
    MUST statements for testing [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-15].

    <scribe> ACTION: felix to move data category identifiers to
    table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of
    Data Categories [recorded in
    [55]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Move data category identifiers
    to table in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding
    of Data Categories [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-04].

    replacing lq-issues with lq-issue in identifer list

    "Inline global rules MUST be specified inside script which has
    type attribute with the value application/xml or
    application/its+xml. "

    in 6.3 Inline Global Rules in HTML5

    "with the value application/xml or application/its+xml." >
    "with the value application/its+xml."

    "The script element itself MUST be child of head element." >
    "The script element itself SHOULD be child of head element."

    6.4 Standoff Markup in HTML5

    "In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored inside a script
    element with its id attribute that MUST be set to the same
    value as the xml:id attribute of the provenanceRecords element
    it contains." > "In HTML5 the standoff markup MUST be stored
    inside a script element. It MUST have a type attribute with the
    value application/its+xml. Its id attribute that MUST be set to
    the same value as the...
    ...xml: id attribute of the provenanceRecords element it
    contains."

    same change for lq issue

    "6.5 Precedence between Selections"

    "Note: If identical selections are defined in different rules
    elements within one document, the selection defined by the last
    takes precedence.": removing the note in sec. 5.5 Precedence
    between Selections

    same for 6.5 Precedence between Selections

    added note from XML section 5.5 "ITS does not define precedence
    related to rules defined or linked based on non-ITS mechanisms
    (such as processing instructions for linking rules)." to HTML
    section 6.5

    "7 Using ITS Markup in XHTML"

    <scribe> ACTION: karl to create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS
    Markup in XHTML [recorded in
    [56]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-331 - Create xhtml example for 7
    Using ITS Markup in XHTML [on Karl Fritsche - due 2012-12-04].

next call

    karl could do wed, felix not wed, but thur

    dave from 1-3 p.m. utc

    on thursday

    and wed too

    yves better on wed

    felix on thur 2 p.m. utc - later

    yves: will modify proveance ot remove pointers

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: felix to come up with running list of MUST
    statements for testing - due december 15 [recorded in
    [57]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to create example with rules element in
    sec. 5.4 - due 15 december [recorded in
    [58]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action04]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to move data category identifiers to table
    in 8.1 Position, Defaults, Inheritance and Overriding of Data
    Categories [recorded in
    [59]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action06]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to update list or IRI attributes at
    [60]http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/i
    ts20/its20.html#iri-usage [recorded in
    [61]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action02]
    [NEW] ACTION: Jirka to go through document and replace HTML5 >
    HTML [recorded in
    [62]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: jirka to take
    [63]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02 for the
    ITS 2.0 schema into account [recorded in
    [64]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action01]
    [NEW] ACTION: karl to create xhtml example for 7 Using ITS
    Markup in XHTML [recorded in
    [65]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html#action07]

      [60] http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#iri-usage
      [63] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-irc#T13-11-02

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________


     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [66]scribe.perl version
     1.137 ([67]CVS log)
     $Date: 2012-11-27 16:58:42 $
      __________________________________________________________

      [66] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [67] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.137  of Date: 2012/09/20 20:19:01
Check for newer version at [68]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
scribe/

      [68] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: fsasaki
Inferring Scribes: fsasaki
Present: karl yves felix Yves_ dave david jirka pnietoca
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Nov 2012
Guessing minutes URL: [69]http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.ht
ml
People with action items: felix jirka karl

      [69] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/27-mlw-lt-minutes.html


    End of [70]scribe.perl diagnostic output]

      [70] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Tuesday, 27 November 2012 17:09:20 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Sunday, 9 June 2013 00:25:03 UTC