LVTF Meeting Minutes 8/3/17

Minutes for today's call are pasted below and at link:
http://www.w3.org/2017/08/03-lvtf-minutes.html

- DRAFT -
Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
03 Aug 2017


See also: IRC log


Attendees
Present
      Shawn, Jim, Erich, Scott, John, steverep, allanj, JohnRochford
Regrets
      Marla, Laura
Chair
      jim
Scribe
      erich
Contents
      Topics
            Any issues with any other SCs. Progress on Understanding
            Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)
      Summary of Action Items
      Summary of Resolutions



<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html


<allanj>
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Jul/0093.html


<JohnRochford> Can't get into WebEx or join by phone.


<scribe> scribe: erich


<scribe> new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869


<JohnRochford> ok


<allanj> https://www.w3.org/2017/08/01-lvtf-info.html


<shawn> s/ new dial-in access - Access code:315 563 869 /


Any issues with any other SCs. Progress on Understanding


JA: need to start getting our understanding documents together, so let the
group know if anyone needs help


Popup Interference (MetaData on Hover)


<allanj> Summary of issues from Tuesday AG meeting


<allanj> 1. popup, popover, custom tooltip - NOT tooltip or menu


<allanj> 2. tag name change - reduce popup interference (16 yes, 5 no)


<allanj> 3. scope - title attribute (yes/no), is anything else left out?


<allanj> 4. megamenu??


<allanj> Things for Understanding doc


<allanj> if you have to click it, it is not a popup


<allanj> button changing color is not a popup.


<allanj> this SC is intended for authors creating 'non-persistant
information' on the screen so they don't interfer with other information


<allanj> Gower - would be nice if the Understanding docs also dissuaded the
use of popups in general given the lack of usability for touchscreen users.
(from comments on github)


<allanj> @title has support issues - Using the HTML title attribute


<allanj> other issues


<allanj> Seems folks want @title=tooltip covered. Including tooltip would
eliminate the need for for the exception at the start.


<allanj> Tho there will be pushback - see
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-270134757


<allanj> see @title on forms -
https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/75#issuecomment-270964479


<allanj> discussion of to include or exclude tooltip


<allanj> if we include tooltip, then telling authors to not use @title


<allanj> sr: did not get adding tooltip from AG discussion


<allanj> sr: change popup to something else, change interference to
visability


SM: must be a concrete reason why term "popup" not accepted


<allanj> sr: no consistent term for popup


<allanj> hover box, hover card


<allanj> current SC


sh: is term "popup" being used elsewhere in wcag 2.0?


<allanj> Except where the visual presentation of a popup is controlled by
the user agent and is not modified by the author, all of the following are
true when a popup is visible:


<allanj> Trigger


<allanj> The Popup does not obscure any part of its trigger.


<allanj> Hover


<allanj> If the popup is triggered via pointer hover, then the pointer may
be moved onto the popup without loss of popup visibility.


<allanj> Focus


<allanj> The Popup remains visible while its trigger or any of its
components have focus, unless the user takes an explicit action to close
the popup.


sr: don't believe so (term "popup" being used elsewhere in wcag 2.0)


<steverep> Hoverbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoverbox


<alastairc> We work the definition into the SC text? "For page content
which appears only when a triggering element gains focus or mouse over, all
of the following are true when that content is visible:"... something like
that?


<alastairc> (Sorry, just got off a call, about to hop onto AGWG call)


<JohnRochford> +1 to visibility rather than interference


sr: can change 'interference' to 'visibility'


+1


<allanj> +1


sr: i can reach out to address the objection, though would ask them to
propose an alternate suggestion


<allanj> change Focus: "The Popup remains visible while its trigger or any
of the popup's components have focus"


<allanj> lowney comment: Exceptions for user canceling the popup should
apply to both keyboard and pointer activation.


<allanj> SR will start email conversations with others on AG to solicit
suggestions


<allanj> group likes "POPUP"


<allanj> Essential information can be printed with no loss of content.


sh: likely to avoid getting in to the muck, as with the term 'zoom'
previously?


ja: what we have right now is pretty simple


sh: one question about testability section, do we remove text about SC
being met with HTML and browsers?


<allanj> add to description - How authors can break printing


sh: also under the description. People will ask, 'what breaks this?' so we
need to answer how it breaks


<allanj> remove technique G142


<allanj> jim to edit wiki to remove zoom stuff


<allanj> regrets for erich next week


<shawn> Testability


<shawn> Print the page. Check to see that essential content is printed,
e.g. no truncated text on right edge of content, no overlapping content.


<shawn> -> Print the page. Check that all essential information is printed
with no overlapping content, missing text on right edge of the page, etc.


<shawn> Related Techniques


<shawn> G146: Using liquid layout


<shawn> C28: Specifying the size of text containers using em units


<shawn> SCR34: Calculating size and position in a way that scales with text
size


<shawn> include those, too? or not since they're referenced in G179


Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
                                                                                        
                    Erich Manser                                                        
                    IBM                                                                 
                    Accessibility,                                                      
                    IBM Research                                                        
                    Littleton,                                                          
                    MA / tel:                                                           
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