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Re: Contd: How to query for Country Specific Data

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:34:06 -0400
Message-ID: <4A1ABA6E.3050201@openlinksw.com>
To: Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
CC: "richard.hancock@3kbo.com" <richard.hancock@3kbo.com>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
Hugh Glaser wrote:
> Thanks Kingsley,
> I think that's enough.
> The only reason I said anything was because you asked me to comment - I did.
> If in answering I misrepresented your offering, then I apologise - although
> I happen to think that I understand it quite well.
> We clearly need to agree to differ on a number of things.
>   
Maybe, but I don't think: what Linked Data is, should be one of those 
things :-)

Kingsley
> Best
> Hugh
>
> On 25/05/2009 13:02, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Hugh Glaser wrote:
>>     
>>> Thanks Kingsley.
>>> I'm not sure why you have raised all this again.
>>> I simply suggested to Richard another way of doing what he wanted.
>>>  
>>>       
>> I don't have an issue with you point Richard to alternatives.
>> I do have issues with our offering being misrepresented (albeit
>> unintentionally).
>>     
>>> You then asked me whether what you had proposed failed to resolve his
>>> problem.
>>> I can't say whether it does, but perhaps Richard can better answer that.
>>>  
>>>       
>> Yes.
>>     
>>> But it would have been rude of me not to attempt to answer your direct
>>> question to me.
>>> My view is that probably none of this now addresses Richard's fundamental
>>> problem, I think, (which I was trying to do in my message and which Toby is
>>> also trying to address). He needs reliable properties that relate countries
>>> to their geography. It is a problem of ontology and published data, not how
>>> to access it.
>>>  
>>>       
>> I am very aware of this, I am not an ABox only Linked Data type :-)
>>     
>>> Išll trim things a bit to try to get at some essence.
>>>
>>> On 25/05/2009 03:43, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> I am not assuming once source. Of course not. I am assuming a possible
>>>> beachhead :-)
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> And a very nice beachhead.
>>> But your solution only talked about the source at http://lod.openlinksw.com
>>> It is also interesting to consider how it might interact with other sources.
>>>  
>>>       
>> If you look closely, we don't take the original URIs out of scope, you
>> always have a route to wherever on the broader Linked Data Web.
>>
>> Nice metaphor: Spaghetti Junction out of B'ham :-)
>>     
>>>> The whole point of Linked Data should be to demonstrate how it embraces
>>>> and extends the Google full text search realm which is autistic to
>>>> entities, entity types, and entity properties re. disambiguation of
>>>> queries (or as they call them: searches).
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Ah. I think this is perhaps getting to the nub.
>>> I don't see Linked Data as relating to search - more to lookup, as in a
>>> database record lookup by key.
>>>  
>>>       
>> Linked Data is inextricably linked to search re. the Web, because URIs
>> are inextricably linked to entity identifiers and negotiated
>> representations (documents) that carry their descriptions.
>>     
>>> The semantic web is more like one big database then a big file system.
>>>  
>>>       
>> I speak in terms of data spaces, and I see the Web as a federation of
>> Linked Data Spaces.
>>
>> I don't see a Web and a Semantic Web. That thinking and reality died a
>> long time ago (imho).
>>
>> There is just a World Wide Web that have evolved to the point where
>> linkage now occurs at the data -- rather than document-- level.
>>     
>>> So you project into the Linked Data world by finding the URI you want, and
>>> from then on in it is URIs all the way down, until/unless you want to show a
>>> human something, when you project back into their language.
>>>  
>>>       
>>>>> That is exactly what Richard was trying to do; having found a URI such as
>>>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand that he is satisfied captures the
>>>>> concept with which he is concerned, he now wants to explore what is known
>>>>> about it in the Linked Data world, without going back to the text world.
>>>>>
>>>>>      
>>>>>           
>>>> Again, I don't think I am sending him back to the full text pattern world.
>>>>
>>>> I am saying:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Enter a patter: New Zealand (as you would re. Google, Yahoo! etc..)
>>>> 2. When presented with hits (which are really Entities with URIs  plus
>>>> excerpts from associated literal object values) filter further by Entity
>>>> Type or Entity Property
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> OK, that's how to start.
>>> But he doesn't need to do that - he said he already had the URI he wanted:
>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand
>>>  
>>>       
>> Even easier then for him, he just goes to the tab labeled: URI Lookup .
>>
>> And then he can see link constellation associated with this entity.
>>
>>     
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>>>> And I donšt think he wanted to do any clicking ­ he wanted to just script
>>>>> it
>>>>> all up in a reliable Linked Data sort of way.
>>>>>
>>>>>      
>>>>>           
>>>> Lets assume he didn't want to click anything, what do you think the
>>>> purpose of the "URI Lookup by Label" and "URI Lookup" tabs are for then?
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> For me to put in a URI such as http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand and
>>> get the Linked Data back.
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> They are for entering patterns that are associated with Entity Labels or
>>>> actual URIs.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Have you tried typing in the URIs that Richard specified?
>>> However, looking at it, I think it may just be a bugette, which confused me.
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> The instance at: <http://lod.openlinksw.com> is but one data space on
>>>> the vast Web of Linked Data. It's a linked data junction box with lots
>>>> of de-referencable URIs that can take you to many places on the Web or
>>>> conduct data via many pathways on the Web.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> Actually, it is a Linked Data site that has uploaded a lot of data from
>>> other places, and also dynamically gets more. I assume by instance you mean
>>> it is an instance of the class of Linked Data sites.
>>>  
>>>       
>>>> I don't understand why you find my responses fundamentally incongruent
>>>> with the very essence of Linked Data. We keep on going round the same
>>>> loop in different ways.
>>>>    
>>>>         
>>> An interesting question.
>>> I am certainly uncomfortable with responses that never seem to mention the
>>> idea that Linked Data is a Web of Data, by suggesting the use of data that
>>> might be accessed on domains other than http://lod.openlinksw.com .
>>>  
>>>       
>> http://lod.openlinksw.com for all intents an purposes in a Linked Data
>> Web lookup service. All URIs are intact meaning, you can dereference the
>> URIs against their sources. Please take a closer look at the @href
>> values in our Web pages.  We are not centralist we are as open as you
>> can get and we tackle real problems based on a wealth of deep experience
>> from both the DBMS (different types) and Middleware realms.
>>
>> Linked Data is a more open vehicle for our inherent passion and
>> expertise. What we showcase is about real issues and practical
>> solutions. The Web isn't about a single company or a single service
>> (I've made this crystal clear numerous times in my comments), it should
>> be a about collections of solutions that adhere to core principles.
>>
>> My general discomfort is that you are not really grasping the essence of
>> our intentions etc..
>>
>>
>> Kingsley
>>     
>>> But this would be for another thread, and I don't have the time to do that.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>       
>> --
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
>> President & CEO
>> OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>   


-- 


Regards,

Kingsley Idehen	      Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
President & CEO 
OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Monday, 25 May 2009 15:34:50 UTC

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