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Re: Contd: How to query for Country Specific Data

From: Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 13:28:13 +0100
To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
CC: "richard.hancock@3kbo.com" <richard.hancock@3kbo.com>, "public-lod@w3.org" <public-lod@w3.org>
Message-ID: <EMEW3|8b8ab1c067248fcd269f99c07b038298l4ODSr02hg|ecs.soton.ac.uk|B4B4%hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Thanks Kingsley,
I think that's enough.
The only reason I said anything was because you asked me to comment - I did.
If in answering I misrepresented your offering, then I apologise - although
I happen to think that I understand it quite well.
We clearly need to agree to differ on a number of things.
Best
Hugh

On 25/05/2009 13:02, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:

> Hugh Glaser wrote:
>> Thanks Kingsley.
>> I'm not sure why you have raised all this again.
>> I simply suggested to Richard another way of doing what he wanted.
>>  
> I don't have an issue with you point Richard to alternatives.
> I do have issues with our offering being misrepresented (albeit
> unintentionally).
>> You then asked me whether what you had proposed failed to resolve his
>> problem.
>> I can't say whether it does, but perhaps Richard can better answer that.
>>  
> Yes.
>> But it would have been rude of me not to attempt to answer your direct
>> question to me.
>> My view is that probably none of this now addresses Richard's fundamental
>> problem, I think, (which I was trying to do in my message and which Toby is
>> also trying to address). He needs reliable properties that relate countries
>> to their geography. It is a problem of ontology and published data, not how
>> to access it.
>>  
> I am very aware of this, I am not an ABox only Linked Data type :-)
>> Išll trim things a bit to try to get at some essence.
>> 
>> On 25/05/2009 03:43, "Kingsley Idehen" <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>  
>>> I am not assuming once source. Of course not. I am assuming a possible
>>> beachhead :-)
>>>    
>> And a very nice beachhead.
>> But your solution only talked about the source at http://lod.openlinksw.com
>> It is also interesting to consider how it might interact with other sources.
>>  
> If you look closely, we don't take the original URIs out of scope, you
> always have a route to wherever on the broader Linked Data Web.
> 
> Nice metaphor: Spaghetti Junction out of B'ham :-)
>>> The whole point of Linked Data should be to demonstrate how it embraces
>>> and extends the Google full text search realm which is autistic to
>>> entities, entity types, and entity properties re. disambiguation of
>>> queries (or as they call them: searches).
>>>    
>> Ah. I think this is perhaps getting to the nub.
>> I don't see Linked Data as relating to search - more to lookup, as in a
>> database record lookup by key.
>>  
> Linked Data is inextricably linked to search re. the Web, because URIs
> are inextricably linked to entity identifiers and negotiated
> representations (documents) that carry their descriptions.
>> The semantic web is more like one big database then a big file system.
>>  
> I speak in terms of data spaces, and I see the Web as a federation of
> Linked Data Spaces.
> 
> I don't see a Web and a Semantic Web. That thinking and reality died a
> long time ago (imho).
> 
> There is just a World Wide Web that have evolved to the point where
> linkage now occurs at the data -- rather than document-- level.
>> So you project into the Linked Data world by finding the URI you want, and
>> from then on in it is URIs all the way down, until/unless you want to show a
>> human something, when you project back into their language.
>>  
>>>> That is exactly what Richard was trying to do; having found a URI such as
>>>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand that he is satisfied captures the
>>>> concept with which he is concerned, he now wants to explore what is known
>>>> about it in the Linked Data world, without going back to the text world.
>>>> 
>>>>      
>>> Again, I don't think I am sending him back to the full text pattern world.
>>> 
>>> I am saying:
>>> 
>>> 1. Enter a patter: New Zealand (as you would re. Google, Yahoo! etc..)
>>> 2. When presented with hits (which are really Entities with URIs  plus
>>> excerpts from associated literal object values) filter further by Entity
>>> Type or Entity Property
>>>    
>> OK, that's how to start.
>> But he doesn't need to do that - he said he already had the URI he wanted:
>> http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand
>>  
> Even easier then for him, he just goes to the tab labeled: URI Lookup .
> 
> And then he can see link constellation associated with this entity.
> 
>>>    
>>>> And I donšt think he wanted to do any clicking ­ he wanted to just script
>>>> it
>>>> all up in a reliable Linked Data sort of way.
>>>> 
>>>>      
>>> Lets assume he didn't want to click anything, what do you think the
>>> purpose of the "URI Lookup by Label" and "URI Lookup" tabs are for then?
>>>    
>> For me to put in a URI such as http://dbpedia.org/resource/New_Zealand and
>> get the Linked Data back.
>>  
>>> They are for entering patterns that are associated with Entity Labels or
>>> actual URIs.
>>>    
>> Have you tried typing in the URIs that Richard specified?
>> However, looking at it, I think it may just be a bugette, which confused me.
>>  
>>> The instance at: <http://lod.openlinksw.com> is but one data space on
>>> the vast Web of Linked Data. It's a linked data junction box with lots
>>> of de-referencable URIs that can take you to many places on the Web or
>>> conduct data via many pathways on the Web.
>>>    
>> Actually, it is a Linked Data site that has uploaded a lot of data from
>> other places, and also dynamically gets more. I assume by instance you mean
>> it is an instance of the class of Linked Data sites.
>>  
>>> I don't understand why you find my responses fundamentally incongruent
>>> with the very essence of Linked Data. We keep on going round the same
>>> loop in different ways.
>>>    
>> An interesting question.
>> I am certainly uncomfortable with responses that never seem to mention the
>> idea that Linked Data is a Web of Data, by suggesting the use of data that
>> might be accessed on domains other than http://lod.openlinksw.com .
>>  
> http://lod.openlinksw.com for all intents an purposes in a Linked Data
> Web lookup service. All URIs are intact meaning, you can dereference the
> URIs against their sources. Please take a closer look at the @href
> values in our Web pages.  We are not centralist we are as open as you
> can get and we tackle real problems based on a wealth of deep experience
> from both the DBMS (different types) and Middleware realms.
> 
> Linked Data is a more open vehicle for our inherent passion and
> expertise. What we showcase is about real issues and practical
> solutions. The Web isn't about a single company or a single service
> (I've made this crystal clear numerous times in my comments), it should
> be a about collections of solutions that adhere to core principles.
> 
> My general discomfort is that you are not really grasping the essence of
> our intentions etc..
> 
> 
> Kingsley
>> But this would be for another thread, and I don't have the time to do that.
>> 
>> Best
>> Hugh
>> 
>> 
>>  
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kingsley Idehen       Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
> President & CEO
> OpenLink Software     Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Received on Monday, 25 May 2009 12:29:35 UTC

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