W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-i18n-its@w3.org > April to June 2007

Re: Action Item: ITS and EMMA (cf. http://www.w3.org/2007/04/18-i18nits-minutes.html#action01)

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:41:09 +0900
Message-ID: <462C0EB5.9030500@w3.org>
To: "Lieske, Christian" <christian.lieske@sap.com>
CC: public-i18n-its@w3.org

Hi Christian,

Lieske, Christian wrote:
> Dear all,
> I worked on my action item related to probing a possible relationship 
> between ITS and EMMA (cf. 
> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/18-i18nits-minutes.html#action01). As 
> already indicated during the conference call, I am under the 
> impression that a relationship exists, and that we thus may consider 
> sending a comment to the EMMA WG. Please find my proposed mail to the 
> EMMA WG below.

I think we could send your comments "as is".

> Aside: I wonder if really we as ITS WG should send the comment, or if 
> we should forward our comments to the i18n WG so that our comments 
> could be included in the comments they possibly will give.

I will ask the i18n core WG what they think. Personally I have no 


> Cheers,
> Christian
> == suggested mail ===
> Dear EMMA WG,
> The W3C Internationalization Tag Set (ITS) WG has been looking at the 
> EMMA WD (http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-emma-20070409/) and has 
> identified a relationship between EMMA and ITS. Accordingly, the ITS 
> WG would like to ask the EMMA WG to consider the use of the W3C ITS 
> Recommendation (see http://www.w3.org/TR/its/). In case you are not 
> familiar with ITS: It defines a set of elements and attributes that 
> provide "ready-to-go" internationalization and localization features.
> Notes:
> a. These comments have been endorsed by the ITS WG.
> b. Main reviewer: Christian Lieske
> Here is a specific observation and suggestion:
> - EMMA is meant to help to extend the Web user interface "to allow 
> multiple modes of interaction (aural, visual and tactile), offering 
> users the means to provide input using their voice or their hands via 
> a key pad, keyboard, mouse, or stylus. For output, users will be able 
> to listen to spoken prompts and audio, and to view information on 
> graphical displays."
> Just looking at the input side of human computer interaction, the ITS 
> WG assumes that EMMA should comprise means to represent features of 
> languages and scripts such as directionality, Ruby annotations.
> - The EMMA WG may want to consider ITS in two ways
> i. Allowing ITS markup in EMMA.
> With this provision in place, EMMA could for example easily carry for 
> example information on directionality, or ruby. Your example 
> [emma:tokens="arriving at 'Liverpool Street'"] could for example be 
> enhanced by local ITS markup (see 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#basic-concepts-selection-local) as follows 
> in order to explicitly encode directionality information: 
> [its:dir="ltr" emma:tokens="arriving at 'Liverpool Street'"]. Please 
> note, that the EMMA design decision to encode tokens in an attribute 
> prevents a decoration of individual tokens. With an elements-based 
> encoding of tokens, the example [<tokens>arriving at 'Liverpool 
> Street'</tokens>] furthermore could be enhanced by local ITS markup as 
> follows in order to explicitly encode the fact that 'Liverpool Street' 
> is a specific type of linguistic unit ('span' by the way is an element 
> which ITS recommands): [<tokens>arriving at <span 
> its:term="yes">Liverpool Street</span></tokens>"].
> Aside: We have considered your response on tokens in 
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2006JulSep/0074.html 
> while crafting this suggestion. We felt, that ITS-annotations to 
> tokens despite of your response would be valuable.
> ii. Creating an ITS Rule file (see 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#link-external-rules) along with the EMMA 
> specification (e.g. as a non-normative appendix).
> With this in place, localization/translation would become easier in 
> case EMMA instances or parts of EMMA instances (eg. an 
> "interpretation") would need to be transfered from one natural 
> language to another one.
> Several EMMA and elements and attributes contain text. Most, if not 
> all localization tools (as well as ITS) assume element content is 
> translatable and attribute content is not translatable. However in 
> EMMA, this assumption does not seem to be valid. The EMMA element 
> "interpretation" for example does not seem to contain immediate 
> translatable content, and the EMMA attribute "tokens" in some 
> circumstances might have to be translated.
> While this is fine because tools have ways to specify an element 
> should not be translated, it is very often quite difficult no know 
> *which elements* or *which attributes* should behave like that. Having 
> a list of elements that are non-translatable (or conversely if there 
> are more non-translatable than translatable elements) would help a 
> lot. This list could be expressed using ITS rules (see 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#basic-concepts-selection-global) relating to 
> "its:translate" (see "its:translate" see 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/its/#trans-datacat). This way all user of 
> translation tools (or other language-related applications such as 
> machine-translation engines, etc.) could look up that set of rules and 
> process accordingly.
> For the examples given above, and ITS rules file could be as simple as:
> <its:rules xmlns:its="http://www.w3.org/2005/11/its" version="1.0">
> <its:translateRule selector="//interpretation" translate="no"/>
> <its:translateRule selector="//@tokens" translate="no"/>
> </its:rules>
> **
> *Christian Lieske
> *MultiLingual Technology Solutions (MLT)
> SAP Language Services (SLS)
> SAP Globalization Services
> *Dietmar-Hopp-Allee 16
> D-69190 Walldorf
> Germany
> T +49 (62^ 27) 7^ -^ 6 13 03
> F +49 (62^ 27) 7^ –^ 2 54 18
> christian.lieske@sap.com <blocked::mailto:christian.lieske@sap.com>_
> _*http://www.sap.com <blocked::http://www.sap.com/>*
> Sitz der Gesellschaft/Registered Office: Walldorf, Germany
> Vorstand/SAP Executive Board: Henning Kagermann (Sprecher/CEO), Léo 
> Apotheker (stellvertretender Sprecher/Deputy CEO), Werner Brandt, 
> Claus Heinrich, Gerhard Oswald, Peter Zencke
> Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/Chairperson of the SAP Supervisory 
> Board: Hasso Plattner
> Registergericht/Commercial Register Mannheim No HRB 350269
> Diese E-Mail kann Betriebs- oder Geschäftsgeheimnisse oder sonstige 
> vertrauliche Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese E-Mail 
> irrtümlich erhalten haben, ist Ihnen eine Kenntnisnahme des Inhalts, 
> eine Vervielfältigung oder Weitergabe der E-Mail ausdrücklich untersagt.
> Bitte benachrichtigen Sie uns und vernichten Sie die empfangene 
> E-Mail. Vielen Dank.
> This e-mail may contain trade secrets or privileged, undisclosed, or 
> otherwise confidential information. If you have received this e-mail 
> in error, you are hereby notified that any review, copying, or 
> distribution of it is strictly prohibited. Please inform us 
> immediately and destroy the original transmittal. Thank you for your 
> cooperation.
Received on Monday, 23 April 2007 01:41:18 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 20:43:08 UTC