- From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:38:20 +0900
- To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
- Message-ID: <44ABDCEC.6080604@w3.org>
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html
and below as text.
- Felix
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
i18n ITS working group
5 Jul 2006
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0001.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-irc
Attendees
Present
Christian, Felix, Goutam, Richard, Yves
Regrets
Sebastian
Chair
Yves
Scribe
Felix
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]action items
2. [6]feedback for the ITS draft from i18n core
3. [7]best practices title
4. [8]change for the BP format
5. [9]feedback on bugs
6. [10]implementations
7. [11]other business
8. [12]next call
* [13]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
Last minutes: [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-i18nits-minutes.html
[14] http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-i18nits-minutes.html
action items
<scribe> ACTION: Christian to check whether the inheritance /
default comment should be a last call comment. (PENDING) [recorded
in [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to draft a proposal about defaults for all
data categories. (PENDING) [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: Andrzej and everybody who has time to look at
OpenDocument for creating a section in the modularization (PENDING)
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
Andrzej: The schema is in RELAX NG
... which I don't know
... open office 1.0 was DTD-based
Yves: will you have time to work on that?
Andrzej: it will take me two weeks time
... I will not be on the call next week
<scribe> ACTION: Diane to look if there is any Boeing XML document
type where ITS could be tried out. (PENDING) [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to check how to create path description with
DOM. (DONE) [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
Felix: I only send a mail to Yves
Yves: send it also to the group
Felix: will do
<r12a> yes
<YvesS>
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0
115.html
[20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0115.html
<scribe> ACTION: Sebastian and Yves to look at the namespace issue
mentioned at
[21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0
115.html (DONE) [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
[21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0115.html
Yves: it does not affect mine or Sebastians implementation
Felix: o.k., I will make a work-around in my implementation
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to get back to Kara for feedback. (DONE)
[recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
Yves: tried to get feedback, no answer yet.
... Andrzej, could you follow up with Kara?
Andrzej: will do
<scribe> ACTION: Andrzej to follow up with Kara on the terminology
topic [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to get DocBook feedback from Norm (PENDING)
[recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to look into
[26]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126. (DONE)
[recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
[26] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126.
<YvesS>
[28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
003.html
[28]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0003.html
Yves: Felix wrote a proposal
... one was to change the wording, saying "we access the text *and*
what it is pointing to"
... another proposal was to allow for a trigger which allows for
deciding what is selected
... my problem is that we might point to a contant which is not
translatable
... but itself it is localizable
... e.g. if you point to the same element?
Felix: you could have two rules, one with the trigger, one without
Yves: we should keep the discussion ongoing
... to get feedback from e.g. Sebastian
feedback for the ITS draft from i18n core
Felix: i18n core is preparing comments, hopefully until next
Wednesday
Yves: fine with me, good to have new comments
Richard: What I prepared so far are mostly editorial comments
... more important parts are put together in the normal way i18n
core prepares comments
best practices title
<r12a> Internationalization Best Practises: Internationalizing XML
Formats and Content
<r12a> Internationalization Best Practises: Internationalizing XML
Schemas and Content
Yves summarizes the proposal describe in the agenda
Yves: I like the first one, it is generic
... some people don't make the link between DTD and schema
... does anybody have a problem in changing the title?
... as long as we have XML, i18n and BP in the title
... I am fine with the change
Andrzej: I like xml internationalization
Yves: it is very short and comes to the point
Richard: but it is also very vague
... we (GEO?) try to make the titles more specific
... identifying the technology and the topic area is important
Christian: sorry for being late
Yves summarizes the discussion for Christian
<r12a> Internationalization Best Practises: Internationalizing XML
Formats and Content
Yves: I propose to write a mail about the change to the list
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to write a mail about the title proposal for
the BP document [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]
<YvesS>
[30]http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.ht
ml
[30] http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html
change for the BP format
Richard: one of the GEO BP documents has been finalized recently
... the way it looked
... Felix wanted me to get back to you what you think about them
... one change: we have a resources section at the end of every BP
... as you publish a BP document, the list gets out of date
<r12a> [31]http://www.w3.org/International/technique-index#html
[31] http://www.w3.org/International/technique-index#html
Richard: the techniques index tells you how to do things
... the idea is to keep that up to date on a regular basis
... see e.g. the links to various RFCs for language identifiers
... so in summary: the proposal is to have a link to the techniques
index in the ITS BP document
... the other change also has to do with resources
<r12a>
[32]http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20040429.094220724
[32] http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20040429.094220724
Richard: here you see a BP described
Richard describes the structure of the BP document
Richard: the question: we good do it in a GEO specific XSLT
stylesheet
... or we could integrate it in the main XSLT stylesheet
Yves: I don't see any problem with the changes
... it is good to have this in one place
Felix: only one concern: Who would update the resource index?
... the index would not be in the hand of just the ITS group
Yves: who would update the index?
Richard: ITS would provide only the initial index
... in the BP document, with the link to the index on the i18n HP
<r12a>
[33]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri2
0040429.094220724
[33]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20040429.094220724
Richard: the link at the bottom of the page "additional resources"
links to the index on the i18n HP
... the techniques index has not the same structure as the documents
Yves: I don't see a large impact
Felix: just be aware that the structure of the index is then not in
the hand of ITS
... I like the index, only wanted to make you aware of it
Yves: thanks for bringing up the topic, index, I don't see a problem
... Richard, go on, implement the changes
Richard: thanks, will do
... there are some other things like various suptypes of sections
Yves: most of the issues we will have with the BP doc will be
finding some resources
... sometimes it is not easy to decompose the document in sections
Richard: please come to GEO, we try what we can
... another question: if I want to change things, should I come to
the ITS meetings
... or just talk to you, Yves?
Yves: maybe first come to me, and we see if we should bother the
group
Felix: Please don't forget Diane :)
Yves: o.k.
<r12a> Richard: I'd be happy for ITS folks to help with the index
feedback on bugs
<YvesS>
[34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
002.html
[34]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0002.html
Felix proposal for resolutions for bugs
[35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
004.html
[35]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0004.html
Felix: how about looking at the proposals, giving feedback until
next weeks call
Yves: o.k. with me
... so if you have an issue with the answers, please start a thread
... we can then send the answers after next weeks meeting
<scribe> ACTION: everybody to look at
[36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
002.html and
[37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
004.html , to be sent after next weeks meeting [recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]
[36]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0002.html
[37]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0004.html
implementations
Yves: I made some changes
... I think I get the same output as you do
... there are some issues: do we need to output the ITS elements
themselves?
... currently, in the draft we don't say what we do for ITS content
Richard: I have written a comment which is related to that
... e.g. you point to the locInfo information in the document
... it is not clear if that should be translated or not
Yves: I was thinking that any ITS content should not be localizable
Richard: that might be too much restriction
... I suggested if you have e.g. locInfoPointer
<YvesS> [39]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/EX-locInfo-element-1.xml
[39] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/EX-locInfo-element-1.xml
Felix proposes to have the rule "data category processing should
exclude markup from that data category"
Yves: the implementations we have today don't process ITS markup
<r12a> <Res>
<r12a> <prolog>
<r12a> <its:rules its:version="1.0">
<r12a> <its:locInfoRule
<r12a> locInfoType="description"
<r12a> selector="//msg/data"
<r12a> locInfoPointer="../notes"/>
<r12a> </its:rules>
<r12a> </prolog>
<r12a> <body>
<r12a> <msg id="FileNotFound">
<r12a> <notes>Indicates that the resource file {0} could not be
loaded.</notes>
<r12a> <data>Cannot find the file {0}.</data>
<r12a> </msg>
<r12a> <msg id="DivByZero">
<r12a> <notes>A division by 0 was going to be computed.</notes>
<r12a> <data>Invalid parameter.</data>
<r12a> </msg>
<r12a> </body>
<r12a> </Res>
Richard explains the example
Yves: two actions: we have to think of that example
... and we have to discuss how the ITS markup works
... currently, I don't make any distinction how ITS markup is
handled in my implementations
<scribe> ACTION: Yves to fix the example Richard gave in the minutes
[recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]
other business
Christian: What is our current status?
Felix: LC is finished, but we agreed to allow i18n core for comments
Christian: my action item (01) is done, no LC comment will come
... I have a question on locInfoPointer
Yves agrees with the explanation of the semantics of locInfoPointer
Richard: a question on locInfoRef pointer
... that must point to s.t. in the body of the text
Richard: the formal definition of locInfoRefPointer just says
"string", not URI
next call
Yves: please comment on the spec until next meeting
Felix: Regrets from me. I will send out the comments, looking at
your minutes.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Andrzej to follow up with Kara on the terminology
topic [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: everybody to look at
[42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
002.html and
[43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
004.html , to be sent after next weeks meeting [recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to fix the example Richard gave in the minutes
[recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to write a mail about the title proposal for the
BP document [recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]
[42]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0002.html
[43]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0004.html
[PENDING] ACTION: Andrzej and everybody who has time to look at
OpenDocument for creating a section in the modularization [recorded
in [47]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Christian to check whether the inheritance /
default comment should be a last call comment. [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Diane to look if there is any Boeing XML document
type where ITS could be tried out. [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: Felix to draft a proposal about defaults for all
data categories. [recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Yves to get DocBook feedback from Norm [recorded
in [51]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: Felix to check how to create path description with
DOM. [recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
[DONE] ACTION: Sebastian and Yves to look at the namespace issue
mentioned at
[53]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0
115.html [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: Yves to get back to Kara for feedback. [recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
[DONE] ACTION: Yves to look into
[56]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126. recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
[53]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0115.html
[56] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126.
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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