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[I18N ITS] Teleconference Minutes 2006-07-05

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:38:20 +0900
Message-ID: <44ABDCEC.6080604@w3.org>
To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
... are at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html

and below as text.

- Felix


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n ITS working group

5 Jul 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0001.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Christian, Felix, Goutam, Richard, Yves

   Regrets
          Sebastian

   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]feedback for the ITS draft from i18n core
         3. [7]best practices title
         4. [8]change for the BP format
         5. [9]feedback on bugs
         6. [10]implementations
         7. [11]other business
         8. [12]next call
     * [13]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   Last minutes: [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-i18nits-minutes.html

     [14] http://www.w3.org/2006/06/28-i18nits-minutes.html

action items

   <scribe> ACTION: Christian to check whether the inheritance /
   default comment should be a last call comment. (PENDING) [recorded
   in [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to draft a proposal about defaults for all
   data categories. (PENDING) [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: Andrzej and everybody who has time to look at
   OpenDocument for creating a section in the modularization (PENDING)
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

   Andrzej: The schema is in RELAX NG
   ... which I don't know
   ... open office 1.0 was DTD-based

   Yves: will you have time to work on that?

   Andrzej: it will take me two weeks time
   ... I will not be on the call next week

   <scribe> ACTION: Diane to look if there is any Boeing XML document
   type where ITS could be tried out. (PENDING) [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to check how to create path description with
   DOM. (DONE) [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]

   Felix: I only send a mail to Yves

   Yves: send it also to the group

   Felix: will do

   <r12a> yes

   <YvesS>
   [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0
   115.html

     [20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0115.html

   <scribe> ACTION: Sebastian and Yves to look at the namespace issue
   mentioned at
   [21]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0
   115.html (DONE) [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]

     [21]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0115.html

   Yves: it does not affect mine or Sebastians implementation

   Felix: o.k., I will make a work-around in my implementation

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to get back to Kara for feedback. (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]

   Yves: tried to get feedback, no answer yet.
   ... Andrzej, could you follow up with Kara?

   Andrzej: will do

   <scribe> ACTION: Andrzej to follow up with Kara on the terminology
   topic [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to get DocBook feedback from Norm (PENDING)
   [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to look into
   [26]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126. (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]

     [26] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126.

   <YvesS>
   [28]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   003.html

     [28]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0003.html

   Yves: Felix wrote a proposal
   ... one was to change the wording, saying "we access the text *and*
   what it is pointing to"
   ... another proposal was to allow for a trigger which allows for
   deciding what is selected
   ... my problem is that we might point to a contant which is not
   translatable
   ... but itself it is localizable
   ... e.g. if you point to the same element?

   Felix: you could have two rules, one with the trigger, one without

   Yves: we should keep the discussion ongoing
   ... to get feedback from e.g. Sebastian

feedback for the ITS draft from i18n core

   Felix: i18n core is preparing comments, hopefully until next
   Wednesday

   Yves: fine with me, good to have new comments

   Richard: What I prepared so far are mostly editorial comments
   ... more important parts are put together in the normal way i18n
   core prepares comments

best practices title

   <r12a> Internationalization Best Practises: Internationalizing XML
   Formats and Content

   <r12a> Internationalization Best Practises: Internationalizing XML
   Schemas and Content

   Yves summarizes the proposal describe in the agenda

   Yves: I like the first one, it is generic
   ... some people don't make the link between DTD and schema
   ... does anybody have a problem in changing the title?
   ... as long as we have XML, i18n and BP in the title
   ... I am fine with the change

   Andrzej: I like xml internationalization

   Yves: it is very short and comes to the point

   Richard: but it is also very vague
   ... we (GEO?) try to make the titles more specific
   ... identifying the technology and the topic area is important

   Christian: sorry for being late

   Yves summarizes the discussion for Christian

   <r12a> Internationalization Best Practises: Internationalizing XML
   Formats and Content

   Yves: I propose to write a mail about the change to the list

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to write a mail about the title proposal for
   the BP document [recorded in
   [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]

   <YvesS>
   [30]http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.ht
   ml

     [30] http://www.w3.org/International/its/techniques/its-techniques.html

change for the BP format

   Richard: one of the GEO BP documents has been finalized recently
   ... the way it looked
   ... Felix wanted me to get back to you what you think about them
   ... one change: we have a resources section at the end of every BP
   ... as you publish a BP document, the list gets out of date

   <r12a> [31]http://www.w3.org/International/technique-index#html

     [31] http://www.w3.org/International/technique-index#html

   Richard: the techniques index tells you how to do things
   ... the idea is to keep that up to date on a regular basis
   ... see e.g. the links to various RFCs for language identifiers
   ... so in summary: the proposal is to have a link to the techniques
   index in the ITS BP document
   ... the other change also has to do with resources

   <r12a>
   [32]http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20040429.094220724

     [32] http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20040429.094220724

   Richard: here you see a BP described

   Richard describes the structure of the BP document

   Richard: the question: we good do it in a GEO specific XSLT
   stylesheet
   ... or we could integrate it in the main XSLT stylesheet

   Yves: I don't see any problem with the changes
   ... it is good to have this in one place

   Felix: only one concern: Who would update the resource index?
   ... the index would not be in the hand of just the ITS group

   Yves: who would update the index?

   Richard: ITS would provide only the initial index
   ... in the BP document, with the link to the index on the i18n HP

   <r12a>
   [33]http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri2
   0040429.094220724

     [33]
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20040429.094220724

   Richard: the link at the bottom of the page "additional resources"
   links to the index on the i18n HP
   ... the techniques index has not the same structure as the documents

   Yves: I don't see a large impact

   Felix: just be aware that the structure of the index is then not in
   the hand of ITS
   ... I like the index, only wanted to make you aware of it

   Yves: thanks for bringing up the topic, index, I don't see a problem
   ... Richard, go on, implement the changes

   Richard: thanks, will do
   ... there are some other things like various suptypes of sections

   Yves: most of the issues we will have with the BP doc will be
   finding some resources
   ... sometimes it is not easy to decompose the document in sections

   Richard: please come to GEO, we try what we can
   ... another question: if I want to change things, should I come to
   the ITS meetings
   ... or just talk to you, Yves?

   Yves: maybe first come to me, and we see if we should bother the
   group

   Felix: Please don't forget Diane :)

   Yves: o.k.

   <r12a> Richard: I'd be happy for ITS folks to help with the index

feedback on bugs

   <YvesS>
   [34]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   002.html

     [34]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0002.html

   Felix proposal for resolutions for bugs

   [35]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   004.html

     [35]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0004.html

   Felix: how about looking at the proposals, giving feedback until
   next weeks call

   Yves: o.k. with me
   ... so if you have an issue with the answers, please start a thread
   ... we can then send the answers after next weeks meeting

   <scribe> ACTION: everybody to look at
   [36]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   002.html and
   [37]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   004.html , to be sent after next weeks meeting [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]

     [36]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0002.html
     [37]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0004.html

implementations

   Yves: I made some changes
   ... I think I get the same output as you do
   ... there are some issues: do we need to output the ITS elements
   themselves?
   ... currently, in the draft we don't say what we do for ITS content

   Richard: I have written a comment which is related to that
   ... e.g. you point to the locInfo information in the document
   ... it is not clear if that should be translated or not

   Yves: I was thinking that any ITS content should not be localizable

   Richard: that might be too much restriction
   ... I suggested if you have e.g. locInfoPointer

   <YvesS> [39]http://www.w3.org/TR/its/EX-locInfo-element-1.xml

     [39] http://www.w3.org/TR/its/EX-locInfo-element-1.xml

   Felix proposes to have the rule "data category processing should
   exclude markup from that data category"

   Yves: the implementations we have today don't process ITS markup

   <r12a> <Res>

   <r12a> <prolog>

   <r12a> <its:rules its:version="1.0">

   <r12a> <its:locInfoRule

   <r12a> locInfoType="description"

   <r12a> selector="//msg/data"

   <r12a> locInfoPointer="../notes"/>

   <r12a> </its:rules>

   <r12a> </prolog>

   <r12a> <body>

   <r12a> <msg id="FileNotFound">

   <r12a> <notes>Indicates that the resource file {0} could not be
   loaded.</notes>

   <r12a> <data>Cannot find the file {0}.</data>

   <r12a> </msg>

   <r12a> <msg id="DivByZero">

   <r12a> <notes>A division by 0 was going to be computed.</notes>

   <r12a> <data>Invalid parameter.</data>

   <r12a> </msg>

   <r12a> </body>

   <r12a> </Res>

   Richard explains the example

   Yves: two actions: we have to think of that example
   ... and we have to discuss how the ITS markup works
   ... currently, I don't make any distinction how ITS markup is
   handled in my implementations

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to fix the example Richard gave in the minutes
   [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]

other business

   Christian: What is our current status?

   Felix: LC is finished, but we agreed to allow i18n core for comments

   Christian: my action item (01) is done, no LC comment will come
   ... I have a question on locInfoPointer

   Yves agrees with the explanation of the semantics of locInfoPointer

   Richard: a question on locInfoRef pointer
   ... that must point to s.t. in the body of the text

   Richard: the formal definition of locInfoRefPointer just says
   "string", not URI

next call

   Yves: please comment on the spec until next meeting

   Felix: Regrets from me. I will send out the comments, looking at
   your minutes.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Andrzej to follow up with Kara on the terminology
   topic [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
   [NEW] ACTION: everybody to look at
   [42]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   002.html and
   [43]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0
   004.html , to be sent after next weeks meeting [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to fix the example Richard gave in the minutes
   [recorded in
   [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to write a mail about the title proposal for the
   BP document [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]

     [42]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0002.html
     [43]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JulSep/0004.html

   [PENDING] ACTION: Andrzej and everybody who has time to look at
   OpenDocument for creating a section in the modularization [recorded
   in [47]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Christian to check whether the inheritance /
   default comment should be a last call comment. [recorded in
   [48]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Diane to look if there is any Boeing XML document
   type where ITS could be tried out. [recorded in
   [49]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Felix to draft a proposal about defaults for all
   data categories. [recorded in
   [50]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Yves to get DocBook feedback from Norm [recorded
   in [51]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]

   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to check how to create path description with
   DOM. [recorded in
   [52]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
   [DONE] ACTION: Sebastian and Yves to look at the namespace issue
   mentioned at
   [53]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0
   115.html [recorded in
   [54]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Yves to get back to Kara for feedback. [recorded in
   [55]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: Yves to look into
   [56]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126. recorded in
   [57]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/05-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]

     [53]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006AprJun/0115.html
     [56] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3126.

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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