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i18n ITS minutes 2006-02-15

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:50:39 +0900
Message-ID: <43F412AF.2030109@w3.org>
To: public-i18n-its@w3.org
Hi all,

Here are the minutes of yesterday's call

http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html

And below as text.

Cheers,
Felix

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                        i18n ITS working group

15 Feb 2006

   [2]Agenda

      [2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0103.html

   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Diane, Christian, Felix, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves

   Regrets
          Andrzej, Damian, Richard

   Chair
          Yves

   Scribe
          Felix

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]action items
         2. [6]time table
         3. [7]segmentation
         4. [8]<span> element
         5. [9]on segmentation (part 2)
         6. [10]Business benefit
         7. [11]editors call
         8. [12]f2f in May
     * [13]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

action items

   <scribe> ACTION: All to look at conformance tests and give comments
   (DONE) [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]

   yves: we got some comments
   ... I have not answered the last mail from Felix
   ... we should make a distinction between people who write schemas,
   versus people who process s.t. with ITS
   ... the schema writers want to support all data categories
   ... the processing implementor
   ... wants to have only one data category

   Sebastian: why a partical conformance in the schema?

   Christian: we had discussions like this
   ... people said we don't want to see a large markup scheme

   Felix: would 20 attributes be too much?

   Christian: I don't know

   Sebastian: We should not say that some data cats are more important
   than others

   Felix: what would happen if a translate attribute is already in the
   schema?

   Sebastian: So if I have a translate attribute, I would have to use
   documentRule?

   Yves: So you would need a mapping?

   Sebastian: Maybe we need to group the data categories

   Yves: one part of ITS is i18n, e.g. bidi

   (long discussion on conformance, sorry for not scribing. No
   conclusion so far; we will continue the discussion on the mailing
   list)

   <scribe> ACTION: All to give feedback on new sections 3.1 and 3.2,
   until Friday (DONE) [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: All to think of how to organize examples inside and
   outside the specification (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]

   <scribe> ACTION: continue conformance discussion on the mailing list
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the
   document about "editors" copy (PENDING) [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
   (DONE) [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]

   felix: implemented in xquery

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim (DONE)
   [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]

   <scribe> ACTION: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests,
   and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels
   (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]

   <scribe> ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
   selection, at the beginning of the scope section. (DONE) [recorded
   in [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]

   <scribe> ACTION: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec
   until the publication date (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]

   <scribe> ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
   them. (ONGOING) [recorded in
   [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]

   yves: Damian is working with somebody on the relation ITS -
   OpenDocument
   ... I have not worked too much on DocBook
   ... TEI?

   Sebastian: I have uploaded new files on the test page

   Felix: How about the xmlspec section? Should we take it out?

   Yves: we could keep it for now
   ... it does not harm

   Sebastian: It is an example of how ITS would go in an DTD

   Christian: I looked at DITA with the term data category

   Yves: XHTML?

   Sebastian: Norman said he will be at the tech plenary, we could push
   on him

   Yves: good idea, I will write s.t. before Nice on DocBook

   <scribe> ACTION: Yves to send s.t. on docbook before the tech
   plenary to the list [recorded in
   [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]

   yves: I tried XHTML
   ... it is very nice
   ... I would like to describe how to integrate ITS markup into XHTML
   ... they have an example how to integrate MathML, but that makes the
   document invalid

   Felix: should this be part of the last call?

   Yves: I will do DocBook

   Felix: I will do xmlspec

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to write a mail to a list: who wants to
   describe the modularizations until the last call? [recorded in
   [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]

time table

   Felix: we might have problems to exit last call (which starts around
   20 May), if we get many comments

   Yves: we have to be finished until mid may with LC

segmentation

   Yves: if you process a document
   ... you need to separate different runs of texts
   ... e.g. a distinction between a para in a footnote and a separate
   para

   <YvesS> [27]http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0601ReqInlineElements

     [27] http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0601ReqInlineElements

   Yves: two problems:
   ... to identify elements with mixed content
   ... versus elements without content
   ... e.g. <p> versus <li>
   ... if you have a schema, it is not difficult to separate these two
   ... the problem is to decide: what starts a segment?
   ... e.g. a footnote vs. a paragraph?
   ... my idea is to have two attributes: list of elements with text /
   without text
   ... and with elements that start segments
   ... with that you should be able to process the file and distingush
   the segments

   sebastian: how will you express the list?

   Yves: I just had a list of element names
   ... Felix described XPath expressions

   Sebastian: how about a note in one place which is different from one
   in another place?
   ... why not making this another data category, that you can attach
   this to any element?

   Yves: good idea

   Sebastian: If I want to say s.t. about 10 elements:
   ... that sounds to me like 10 documentRule elements

   Yves: so instead of a list the same as with e.g. translate?

   Sebastian: I think you could do the same with documentRules
   ... and could avoid a new syntax

   Felix: I would propose to use the documentRules syntax

   Yves: the implementation view point is that you have a lot of
   occurences
   ... so your application will get much slower

   Sebastian: You don't have to implement it by decorating a DOM
   ... e.g. if you say the root element is translatable, all nodes are
   decorated with "inerited"
   ... the list contains lists of elements, so is not the same as with
   selector attributes?

<span> element

   Yves: the span element

   Felix: I would write s.t. like that, you could comment via mail

   Yves: it changes nothing, only the way ITS namespace is treated

   <scribe> ACTION: felix to integrate <span> element until tomorrow
   into the draft [recorded in
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action14]

on segmentation (part 2)

   Christian: Should we call this segmentation or inline?

   Yves: I got some feedback that segmentation is better

Business benefit

   <YvesS>
   [29]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
   089.html

     [29]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0089.html

   Felix: would it be o.k. to give it personally to participants from
   the Berlin meeting?

   Yves: maybe it is very concentrated on translatability

   Felix: the audience would be mainly localization people

editors call

   Felix: this call would be useful for all people who edit all
   documents
   ... to work out the wording

   Yves: so regulary two times a week?

   Christian: Friday would be better for me

   Yves: so how about Friday at four?

   <scribe> ACTION: Felix to make a weekly schedule with Zakim for ITS
   editor's call [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action15]

f2f in May

   Yves: I need to know the dates soon

   Some possible dates:

   16-19 May 2006: XTECH, Amsterdam

   21-22 May: AC meeting, Edinburgh

   23-26 May : WWW 2006, Edinburgh

   22-28 May 2006: LREC, Portugal

   29-30 May (noon): LSGB conference (follow up from Berlin meeting),
   Barcelona

   Sebastian:

   [[I cannot leave the UK until May 14th, and have meetings in Kyoto
   on 17, 18 and 19. So in practice I could only do a day on 16, or
   have to wait until 22nd-24th.]]

   discussion about the dates. result: end of May, beginning of June.
   possibly in France. possibly hosted by SAP. Christian will check

   Yves: tentative date:

   31 May, 1st and 2nd June

   Yves: maybe in Paris
   ... or somewhere else in Europe

   Christian: Heidelberg?

   Yves: how about trying Barcelona?

   Christian: SAP might have a host in Barcelona as well

   Hi Diane, this is the link to localization world in Barcelona:
   [31]http://www.localizationworld.com/

     [31] http://www.localizationworld.com/

   <diane> thanks

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: continue conformance discussion on the mailing list
   [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action04]
   [NEW] ACTION: felix to integrate element until tomorrow into the
   draft [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action14]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to make a weekly schedule with Zakim for ITS
   editor's call [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action15]
   [NEW] ACTION: Felix to write a mail to a list: who wants to describe
   the modularizations until the last call? [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action13]
   [NEW] ACTION: Yves to send s.t. on docbook before the tech plenary
   to the list [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action12]

   [PENDING] ACTION: All to think of how to organize examples inside
   and outside the specification [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests,
   and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels
   [recorded in
   [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action08]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec
   until the publication date [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action10]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the
   document about "editors" copy [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
   them. [recorded in
   [41]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action11]

   [DONE] ACTION: All to look at conformance tests and give comments
   [recorded in
   [42]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action01]
   [DONE] ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
   selection, at the beginning of the scope section. [recorded in
   [43]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action09]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
   [recorded in
   [44]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action06]
   [DONE] ACTION: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim [recorded
   in [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: All to give feedback on new sections 3.1 and 3.2,
   until Friday [recorded in
   [46]http://www.w3.org/2006/02/15-i18nits-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________


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Received on Thursday, 16 February 2006 05:50:49 UTC

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