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i18n ITS working group minutes 2006-01-18

From: Felix Sasaki <fsasaki@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:59:18 +0900
To: "public-i18n-its@w3.org" <public-i18n-its@w3.org>
Message-ID: <op.s3lz44u0x1753t@ibm-60d333fc0ec.mag.keio.ac.jp>

Hi all,

The minutes of yesterdays call ar at

http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html

and below as text.

Regards, Felix

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                         i18n ITS working group

18 Jan 2006

    [2]Agenda

       [2]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0022.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Christian, Felix, Goutam, Sebastian, Yves

    Regrets
           Diane, Damian, and Pootam

    Chair
           Yves

    Scribe
           Felix

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]action items
          2. [6]LREC workshop
          3. [7]techniques document
          4. [8]other topics
          5. [9]DITA call yesterday
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________

action items

    <fsasaki> ACTION: All to look at parameters for the f2f around www
    conference or xtech (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: All to think about f2f at tech plenary and see if
    they can make it or not (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [12]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

    <fsasaki> cl: I need to look into this again

    <fsasaki> yves: so we would have three people

    <fsasaki> felix: we should decide until tomorrow, because of the
    deadline on Friday

    <fsasaki> cl: we will be busy before the meeting

    <fsasaki> .. I am not sure if we will have many urgent things during
    the meeting

    <fsasaki> felix: we will be busy, but we can't do everything, so
    there will be a lot to be discussed

    <fsasaki> yves: if we would have four people, that would be good

    <fsasaki> .. najib maybe at the tech plenary as well

    <fsasaki> ACTION: felix to send a mail to the member list about the
    friday deadline of the tec plenary registration [recorded in
    [13]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to ask other w3c staff member about how to
    implement performance in general (DONE) [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

    <fsasaki>
    [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
    026.html

      [15]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0026.html

    <fsasaki> yves: I liked that they make a lot of distinctions about
    the format and its application

    <fsasaki> .. that is very useful

    <fsasaki> .. also, you pointed out to have a limited set of features

    <fsasaki> felix: a point is the extension mechanism

    <fsasaki> sebastian: we have that already by saying "we allow other
    namespaces"?

    <fsasaki> yves: maybe we need more

    <fsasaki> .. another topic: saying what features we have, and what
    the conformance for these is

    <fsasaki> .. I would try to write a draft section on this

    <fsasaki> felix: we should change the charter with respect to the
    "products" we want to create (tag set, processor(s))

    <fsasaki> yves: if it does not hurt, we could do that

    <fsasaki> cl: another topic: as we discussed the working draft, we
    discussed conformance of markup versus other conformance

    <chriLi>
    [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005OctDec/0
    093.html

      [16]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2005OctDec/0093.html

    <fsasaki> cl: this was an early proposal, I think something like
    that would be useful

    <fsasaki> .. karls input would give input to rephrase a conformance
    section

    <fsasaki> ACTION: cl and fs to rephrase the conformance section
    [recorded in
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
    them (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [18]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

    <fsasaki> yves: have not done much with DocBook

    <fsasaki> cl: on DITA:

    <fsasaki> .. I have found an interesting example, I'll have a closer
    look at this later

    <fsasaki> Yves: Sebastian did a lot for TEI

    <fsasaki> sr: I will not do more examples or checking

    <fsasaki> .. I will show it to the TEI community

    <fsasaki> Yves: we need to write sections for each format, in
    addition of examples

    <fsasaki> felix: xmlspec, no progress

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Yves to make a sample for different levels of
    conformances (DONE) [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

    <YvesS> The link to the example:
    [20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0
    016.html

      [20]  
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0016.html

    <fsasaki> cl: it might be misleading to talk about conformance

    <fsasaki> .. it should be discussed as metadata for ITS itself

    <fsasaki> .. I made an comparison to xsd

    <fsasaki> Yves: should we allow for processing which is different
    for tools?

    <fsasaki> .. the next question: how do we indicate that in the
    markup?

    <fsasaki> cl: I would not mash the metadata with conformance
    criteria

    <fsasaki> fs: I compare ITS to HTML. that is having two products

    <fsasaki> sr: giving the set of rules, it would be illigal to get
    the wrong value for the translate attribute

    <fsasaki> .. which means that you have to follow selectors

    <fsasaki> .. without selectors, it is difficult anway (like
    xml:lang)

    <fsasaki> felix: there might be users who don't use selectors

    <fsasaki> sr: but we need an inheritance mechanism

    <fsasaki> .. it might be good to have the separation in basic markup
    versus processing models

    <fsasaki> yves: I am afraid if we separate markup conformance versus
    processors, people are confused

    <fsasaki> .. they might have a tool which uses ITS markup, but which
    does a different processing than expected

    <fsasaki> .. I see the value of the HTML way, but ITS tools need to
    see the value of being conformant

    <fsasaki> sr: is it possible to have markup with s.t. else than
    xpath?

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Yves and all othes to come up with a list of ITS
    products [recorded in
    [21]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action08], see

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Yves to explore constraint support in CSS and
    possibly contact a CSS guru. (PENDING) [recorded in
    [22]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
    selectors, at the beginning of the selectors section. (PENDING)
    [recorded in
    [23]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to change bidi notation, as a response to
    Mimasas comment. (DONE) [recorded in
    [24]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action11]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to change the ITS ODD definition so that it
    does not need an entry point anymore. (DONE) [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to change the ITS ODD definition so that it
    does not need an entry point anymore. (DONE) [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action13]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to check possible problems with both
    elements and attributes qualified. (DONE) [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action14]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to correct the syntax error in the markup
    logged in Bugzilla. (DONE9 [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action15]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to correct the wrong XML Schema namespace.
    (DONE) [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action16]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix to talk to the QA activity within W3C about
    conformance criteria for ITS. (DONE) [recorded in
    [30]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action17]

    <fsasaki> yves: discussion is ongoing, but the action item is done

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Felix will tackle moving information from the
    i18n-comments lists, and move it to bugzilla. (DONE) [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action18]

    <fsasaki> yves: remove that from the action item list

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Sebastian to change the processing system for ODD.
    (ONGOING) [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action19]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Yves to Update the Requirement wiki list and
    status. (PENDING) [recorded in
    [33]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action20]

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Yves to finalize and send his ITS use cases
    examples to Sebastian and Felix. (DONE) [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action21]

    <fsasaki> sr: will we put the examples in a note?

    <fsasaki> yves: I thought of the modularizations

    <fsasaki> sr: maybe I merged the two topics

    <fsasaki> fs: I will implement the changes we discussed at the
    december meeting

    <fsasaki> sr: we will reference the examples in the new public
    draft?

    <fsasaki> ACTION: everybody to follow new syntax (discussed at
    december f2f: "selector" attributes (e.g. "translateSelector")
    instead of "scope" attributes) , and sr (processing) and fs (odd
    document) will implement the new syntax [recorded in
    [35]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action22]

LREC workshop

    <fsasaki> Andrejz: I can talk about ITS at that workshop

    <fsasaki> .. to clear some confusion on the relation between
    standards

    <fsasaki> .. I made a presentation on this also at the Berlin
    meeting in December

    <fsasaki> cl: I would like to see honest statements about the
    statements of formats

    <fsasaki> .. e.g. ITS is not a standard yet, but a draft

    <fsasaki> .. e.g. we can show how formats work together, but not
    standards

    <fsasaki> .. sometimes people think they talk about standards, but
    they are not

    <fsasaki> Andrejz: in the Berlin presentation I concentrated on LISA
    standards

    <fsasaki> .. we put together workable drafts of specs

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Andrejz to start an article about the relations
    between various standards [recorded in
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action23]

techniques document

    <fsasaki> yves: I will follow on that up later

other topics

    <fsasaki> Yves: I will follow up with other topics per mail, please
    participate

DITA call yesterday

    <fsasaki> cl: as for inline versus block markup

    <fsasaki> .. should we add this to the next WD?

    <fsasaki> yves: we don't have a page, and no owner

    <fsasaki> .. it is an important data category

    <fsasaki> Andrejz: I would like to start that

    <fsasaki> ACTION: Yves to set up wiki page for Andrejz, and Andrjez
    to write about inline versus other markup [recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action24]

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Andrejz to start an article about the relations
    between various standards [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action23]
    [NEW] ACTION: cl and fs to rephrase the conformance section
    [recorded in
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: everybody to follow new syntax (discussed at december
    f2f: "selector" attributes (e.g. "translateSelector") instead of
    "scope" attributes) , and sr (processing) and fs (odd document) will
    implement the new syntax
    [40]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action22]
    [NEW] ACTION: felix to send a mail to the member list about the
    friday deadline of the tec plenary registration [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves and all othes to come up with a list of ITS
    products (see [42]Classes of productsfor more info) recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action08]
    [NEW] ACTION: Yves to set up wiki page for Andrejz, and Andrjez to
    write about inline versus other markup [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action24]
    [PENDING] ACTION: All to look at parameters for the f2f around www
    conference or xtech [recorded in
    [45]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
    [PENDING] ACTION: All to think about f2f at tech plenary and see if
    they can make it or not [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Christian to write a non-normative section on
    scope, at the beginning of the scope section. [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action10]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on
    them [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action06]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Sebastian to change the processing system for ODD.
    [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action19]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Yves to explore constraint support in CSS and
    possibly contact a CSS guru. [recorded in
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action09]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Yves to Update the Requirement wiki list and
    status. [recorded in
    [51]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action20]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to correct the syntax error in the markup
    logged in Bugzilla. [recorded in
    [52]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action15]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to ask other w3c staff member about how to
    implement performance in general [recorded in
    [53]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to change bidi notation, as a response to
    Mimasas comment. [recorded in
    [54]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action11]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to change the ITS ODD definition so that it
    does not need an entry point anymore. [recorded in
    [55]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action12]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to change the ITS ODD definition so that it
    does not need an entry point anymore. [recorded in
    [56]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action13]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to check possible problems with both elements
    and attributes qualified. [recorded in
    [57]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action14]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to correct the wrong XML Schema namespace.
    [recorded in
    [58]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action16]
    [DONE] ACTION: Felix to talk to the QA activity within W3C about
    conformance criteria for ITS. [recorded in
    [59]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action17]
    [DONE] ACTION: Yves to finalize and send his ITS use cases examples
    to Sebastian and Felix. [recorded in
    [60]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action21]
    [DONE] ACTION: Yves to make a sample for different levels of
    conformances [recorded in
    [61]http://www.w3.org/2006/01/18-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

      [42] http://www.w3.org/TR/spec-variability/#spec-cat-cop

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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