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Minutes 2005-03-03: GEO FTF

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:27:48 -0000
To: "GEO" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20050317092748.9F8674F100@homer.w3.org>

Minutes GEO Face to Face: 2005-03-03

[This obsoletes the email with subject "Minutes 2005-02-09: GEO FTF: 2005-03-03"]

Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Scribe: Deborah Cawkwell
Times are in GMT/UTC
Attendees: Richard Ishida (Chair I18N GEO), Deborah Cawkwell (BBC World Service), Martin Duerst (W3C I18N activity lead), Susan K Miller (Boeing), Russ Rolfe (Microsoft), Felix Sasaki (future W3C)
Attending via IRC: Andrew Cunningham
Regrets: none

ACTION: RI, implement agreed changes to resource boxes in techniques doc
ACTION: RI, add links to wiki(s) from GEO home page
ACTION: RR, make list of dev resources & will try to divy up tomorrow

Session Start: Thu Mar 03 14:54:05 2005
Session Ident: #i18n
[14:54] * Now talking in #i18n

[14:54]  AC tests outstanding

[14:54]  XML tutorial for Arabic & Hebrrew
[14:55]  translation bi-di markup into French
[14:55]  will be a part of tutorial for www conference in April (Arabic & Hebrew)

[14:56]  RI has done presentations in Powerpoint
[14:56]  has found a way to transform Powerpoint to HTML
[14:56]  does this by taking screenshots of each slide
[14:57]  We always annotate slides so most of the information is in there anyway
[14:57]  demonstration of what the tool does so far
[14:57]  has taken existing tutorial as a test case
[14:58]  difference is the addition of screenshots
[14:58]  you could click on any screenshot
[14:58]  & go to a larger view where screenshot is bigger, more legible 
[14:58]  & includes notes
[14:59]  notes not yet integrated with SVG slides
[14:59]  SVG would be better to use as presentation slides
[14:59]  Definitely one way to show only slides
[15:00]  Ideally screenshot would be SVG not png
[15:00] <Deborah> Is the text of the slides in alt attribute
[15:00]  alt text currently only says slide
[15:01] <AndrewC> longdesc?
[15:01]  not currently 
[15:01]  but in development
[15:03]  longdesc could work with a URI
[15:03]  for screenreader
[15:03]  Richard will talk to WAI folks
[15:04]  [back to demo]
[15:04]  system allows you to jump from slides in HTML with png images back to tutorial
[15:04]  Work items list done

[15:05]  new techniques index operational
[15:05]  for those not on last call
[15:06]  nav from home to techniques
[15:06]  takes you to techniques index
[15:06]  http://www.w3.org/International/technique-index
[15:07]  - links info for each technique link presented at this level
[15:07]  also outline link for each technique

[15:08]  new techniques doc published
[15:08]  Language of Content

[15:08]  Core is looking for reviewers of specs
[15:08]  Please put your hand up if you're interested
[15:08]  Different ways of doing it 
[15:08]  can send to Core
[15:09]  would not nec need to join that group
[15:09]  might need to be involved in teleconf
[15:09]  Deborah signed up for ATAG
[15:10] <AndrewC> ... as to hands up ...depends on which specs need reviewing ....
[15:10]  http://www.w3.org/International/core/reviews
[15:10] <Deborah> Andrew: see anything you like?
[15:11]  does reviewing have an effect on patent policy
[15:11]  there will be a clause
[15:11]  if you know of any patents relating
[15:11] <AndrewC> llooking, let richard know later
[15:11]  you need to declare them
[15:12] <Deborah> OK Andrew
[15:13]  This not clear in AT
[15:14]  http://www.w3.org/International/core/reviews#ATAG
[15:14]  ATAG 2.0

[15:14]  Combining of FAQ & articles list
[15:14]  done
[15:14]  no longer FAQ link from home page
[15:14]  http://www.w3.org/International/articles/

[15:14]  also added site search facility
[15:15]  restricted to i18n site only
[15:16]  not on every page (search)

[15:16]  Martin short update on what's happening with lang tags
[15:17]  Addison P & Mark Davis update 
[15:17]  was no standard for script tags
[15:17]  desire to include locale information
[15:17]  done work in IETF
[15:17]  individual submission
[15:18]  way to work within this org with setting up a working group
[15:18]  finished doc
[15:18]  lot of discussion on list
[15:18]  for checking lang tag registrations
[15:18]  at 1st last call
[15:18]  some people in some companies
[15:18]  said 
[15:19]  didn't see it before
[15:19]  more people got involved in discussion
[15:19]  more players
[15:20]  also some significant changes to doc
[15:20]  reg of tags to reg of sub tags
[15:20]  mailing list with rel parties
[15:20]  finished discussion
[15:20]  then to another last call
[15:20]  at that point things should have worked out
[15:21]  got down the wrong throat of some people
[15:21]  ISG  - if comes from WG...
[15:21]  then response can be complainers could have been involved in the WG
[15:22]  individual submission meant this couldn't work
[15:22]  2 last calls
[15:22]  deceision not been made yet
[15:22]  decision to make a WG
[15:22]  2 co-chairs
[15:22]  charter sent out on IETF list
[15:23]  if all goes well this WG will be started & should not need to spend so much time on the drafts
[15:23]  then 2 new documents about language tags
[15:24]  1) syntax, & how registry works
[15:24]  this system would allow more possibilities
[15:24]  2nd document will take a bit longer
[15:25]  then it would go to HTML, XML specs, etc
[15:26]  some specs point to RFC successors
[15:26] * matthieu has joined #i18n
[15:26]  not so clear for GEO
[15:26]  new thing is technically more complicated 
[15:26]  more details
[15:26]  more choices
[15:27]  will have to think what is important for whom
[15:27]  which of the features really gets used a lot
[15:27]  script important especially for Chinese
[15:27] * YvesS has joined #i18n
[15:28]  some aspects that are lesser used have a lesser requirement for lots of detail
[15:28]  element of redundancy with script information, eg with Japanese
[15:29]  2 documents
[15:29]  1) tags
[15:29]  2) how to match these tags
[15:30]  RFC 3066: Tags for the Identification of Languages
[15:30]  http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt

[15:31]  Introduction of Matthieu 

[15:31]  Team Photo next
[15:31] * Susan has joined #i18n
[15:59] * fantasai has left #i18n
[16:02] * Najib has joined #i18N
[16:02] * Diane has joined #i18n
[16:05] <Deborah> [Back after coffee]

[16:05] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/2002/05/i18n-recharter/WG-charter.html
[16:07]  Look at deliverables

[16:08]  Deliverable: Framework
[16:08]  Short document of intent
[16:08] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-guide-framework/
[16:09]  Identification what Techniques documents would be produced
[16:09]  & what they would look like
[16:09]  obviously now out of date
[16:09]  key reason done
[16:10]  to get common agreement
[16:10]  describes desire for task-centred approach
[16:10] * cgi-irc has joined #i18n
[16:10]  what want to achieve in terms of usability
[16:10] * cgi-irc is now known as az
[16:11]  Framework was produced, needs document to be refreshed if to keep it up to date

[16:11]  Deliverable: Guidelines
[16:11]  Failed to follow schedule
[16:11]  but not an issue
[16:11]  produced one big document 
[16:11]  then split it into three
[16:12]  current strategy we are following....
[16:12]  policy at the moment to work on one document at a time
[16:13]  need to spend a little more time to get the Techniques to Note
[16:13]  latter is more formal document
[16:13]  statement was a little vague
[16:13]  production of FAQs slowed down in the past few months
[16:14]  RR: we did well for a group that got together & had to decide where to go
[16:14]  what not so well is getting stuff out in timely manner
[16:15]  stuff out there is good & people are using it
[16:15]  some of us not our day job...
[16:15]  puts a burden on Richard
[16:15]  was a time when FAQs produced every week
[16:15]  then slacked off to work on Techniques document
[16:15]  not sure we recovered
[16:15]  only 3 people from original group
[16:16]  major turnover of people
[16:16]  loss of Tex, etc
[16:16]  dynamic of group changed a bigt
[16:16]  pretty committed 2 and half years ago
[16:16]  but that was on FAQs, 
[16:18]  initially all same job
[16:18]  now different sets of skills, different interests
[16:18]  getting into outreach & stuff like that
[16:19]  Richard does a lot of the writing these days...
[16:19]  some people doing more reviewing
[16:20]  RR in MS: day job is interrrupt based
[16:21]  DC agreed day job: problems with interrupts
[16:22]  People in other groups feel they need to put in a couple of weeks at a time
[16:22]  rather than working in a bitty way
[16:23]  preference to do more brainstorming in teleconf?
[16:24]  in doing reviews, we do break in to doing the brainstorming
[16:25] <az> dialing in again
[16:27] * nomuran has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[16:27] <az> back again
[16:28]  susan work process too diffused
[16:29]  susan & deborah getting focussed but late on Techniques document
[16:30]  what motivated us to get moving on that document
[16:33]  overwheming amount of information for new joiners
[16:33]  Susan never thought it would take this long to get up to speed
[16:33] * Diane has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[16:33]  tendency to loose focus on GEO work until agenda email arrives
[16:35]  could agenda be shorter
[16:36]  Richard made an effort to make shorter
[16:36]  just the things we'd get through
[16:36]  maybe slipping a bit, getting longer
[16:36]  Plan isn't succeeding on focussing 
[16:37] <AndrewC> mayb need to identify priorities?
[16:38] <Deborah> not clear about what to prioritise
[16:38]  Feeling we need a road map
[16:39] <Najib> I like the road map idea
[16:40]  Need feeling of movement
[16:41]  Deadlines maybe too vague
[16:42]  2 levels need to work on
[16:42] <AndrewC> milestones ... for eaxample ... each techniques doc going to note?
[16:43]  another problem
[16:43]  under last charter
[16:43]  lose on roadmap
[16:43]  grateful for anything....
[16:43]  also developed responsive approach
[16:44]  as a result of questions or web standards list
[16:44]  this is hard to put into a road map
[16:45]  milestones maybe for all 3 techniques docs
[16:45]  not just the deadlines though
[16:45]  interim stages
[16:46]  needs to be managable
[16:46]  prioritising: how can we do this
[16:46]  choose one thing a week
[16:46]  if we roadmapped everything...
[16:47]  priority 1 & 2 poss not just one thing
[16:48]  might work, if we get scheduling done as well...
[16:48]  plus if developing you work on that one thing too
[16:50]  worries about extra admin overhead
[16:50]  especially no desire for Gant charts
[16:54]  also enthusiasm for WIKI experiment
[16:54]  we should try it all together in the meeting
[16:56]  update notification via RSS reader 

[16:57]  also richard spoke with Shawn at WAI
[16:57]  After lunch wendy & Ben
[16:57]  [we're breaking for lunch shortly]
[16:57] <AndrewC> regarding RSS, Thunderbird can handle rss feeds as well as email
[17:00] * YvesS has left #i18n
[17:06]  [lunch - back at 1ish]

Over lunch Richard shows Wendy Chisholm and Ben Caldwell the latest developments we have made to our Techniques document format.

[17:53] * az has quit IRC 
[18:27]  Wendy Chisholm & Ben Caldwell joined the meeting
[18:28]  They are involved in accessibility
[18:28]  Technique index with list of all techniques
[18:28]  plus top-level links to outline version & link
[18:29]  idea to separate resources
[18:29]  because that can often be updated,
[18:29]  whilst we wouldn't want to be updating the Technique as often
[18:30] * AndrewC_ is now known as AndrewC
[18:30]  Resources document
[18:31]  for every section in every techniques documents
[18:31]  each section has a resources part
[18:32]  but wnat techniques doc to be readable as a top-to-bottom document
[18:32]  what if included
[18:32]  if all resources included
[18:33]  then link at bottom to 'up-to-date list of resources'
[18:33]  arguable that easier to read without big blue-blocked resources interrupting
[18:33]  issue about which resource links to which technique
[18:34]  maybe less background colour would help
[18:34]  how should resources separateness be indicated?
[18:34]  should it stick out or stick in?
[18:35]  what to do when new document available?
[18:35]  RFC 3066bis 
[18:35]  could not just be pasted in
[18:35]  other simpler stuff could be
[18:36]  Resources have different sections:
[18:36]  Background information
[18:36]  How tos
[18:36]  Sources
[18:37]  distracting duplication?
[18:37]  Could the information go on one line?
[18:37]  Would that make it easier to read?
[18:38] * Susan has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[18:38]  Not about changing the length of the document, it's about the resources not disrupting the flow too much
[18:38]  could it be collapsible (ie. JavaScript)
[18:39]  Richard unsure about using it?
[18:39]  Ben: has it ever been done in TR space?
[18:39]  Would JS have to be used?
[18:39]  Worry with JS that might not be forward-compatible
[18:39]  Russ: why not ask the audience?
[18:40]  Worst off is that the answer is no
[18:40]  Matt is in meeting 
[18:40]  Says JS should not be used for this
[18:40]  Thoughts of achieving this result with stylesheets
[18:40]  but JS would be needed to change the stylesheets
[18:41]  Wendy had no problem with these blocks interrupting the flow
[18:41]  These blocks are a lot of the content
[18:41]  Wendy: feels it adds credibility
[18:41]  If you read the document without these, you could feel they just talk about it
[18:42]  Desire to know what the references are behind this information
[18:42]  Depends on audience & task
[18:42]  Developer vs reading for input / communication
[18:42]  For the latter you need the info behind the technique
[18:43]  For the former, (maybe) you just want to know how to do it
[18:43]  Does it get in the way?
[18:43]  Yes, likes lots of white space & not clutter
[18:43]  eye drawn to box not to the other information
[18:43]  info in box is scannable
[18:43]  nicely laid out
[18:45]  Heading of technique is too similar to boxing style
[18:45]  should leave in (resources box) but look at the styling
[18:45]  indentation - could be used?
[18:45]  could the box be floated off to the right?
[18:46]  If mostly there isn't any more, do you want to send somone off to 'latest / most up-to-date'
[18:47]  [3 people in meeting live in Seattle: Wendy, Susan, Russ]
[18:47]  [could conf be in Seattle]
[18:47]  Floated to right - would all examples fit?
[18:47]  Too much going on
[18:47]  So many colours, fonts, alignment differences
[18:48]  too much clutter
[18:49]  styling should be less obstrusive
[18:49]  Pink boxes have same colour text ...
[18:51]  cf Bert Bos presentation style
[18:51]  tried with a few browsers
[18:52]  some not rendering ok
[18:52]  but still works 
[18:53] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/2005/02/3GSM-2005.html
[18:53]  use of boxes with corners, shadows
[18:54]  doesn't work in IE
[18:54]  new version IE
[18:54]  Summary: work on styling required 
[18:55]  Don't remove rosources from document
[18:55]  but add a link at the bottom
ACTION: RI, implement agreed changes to resource boxes in techniques doc
[18:55]  [Ben & Matt introduced:  Wendy feels important work they can do together]

[18:56]  Latest charter
[18:57]  Deliverables
[18:58]  http://www.w3.org/2004/11/i18n-recharter/geo-charter#deliverables
[18:58]  Topic areas:
[18:58] * Susan has joined #i18n
[18:59]  Refine the Working Drafts of the following techniques documents in the series 'Authoring Techniques for XHTML & HTML Internationalization', and move to Working Group Note status:
[18:59]  Expectation that more techniques docs would be delivered
[18:59]  Produce a tutorial on implementing markup for right to left scripts (eg. Arabic and Hebrew).
[18:59]  Produce advice for styling Chinese, Japanese and Korean sites, based on current capabilities of CSS2 and previewing capabilities expected with CSS3.
[18:59]  will be done by Richard for www conf
[19:00]  New question/direction:
[19:00]  Begin work on advice for authoring tool developers related to declaration of language and encoding in XHTML.
[19:00] * russ has joined #I18n
[19:00]  what should tool developers do?
[19:00]  Also:
[19:00]  Provide how-to information about use of multilingual features in XSLT.
[19:00] <Deborah> so branching away from HTML
[19:01]  Mentioned briefly in original charter
[19:01]  v vague then
[19:01]  Note, in addition, that the GEO WG will assist in the development of guidelines by the ITS WG relating to DTD and XML Schema internationalization.
[19:02]  Also, assistance for ITS WG
[19:02]  Thoughts on this?
[19:02]  Nice to talk about roadmaps
[19:03]  Outreach time: consensus time has come to get stuff out there
[19:04]  given that lots of information has been produced
[19:04]  Breakdown of tasks
[19:04]  eg 
[19:06]  Provide how-to info about use of multilingual features in XSLT:
[19:06]  which ml features?
[19:07]  what sort of how-to info
[19:07]  - extracting text from code
[19:08]  which Richard has done for techniques document
[19:09]  eg, using an XML config
[19:10]  Some languages might use word & numbering in different sorts of combinations
[19:10]  Felix question:
[19:10]  is there a reason why you focus on XSLT
[19:10]  suggests advice on XQuery
[19:10]  Richard was asked to choose a few days before charter
[19:11]  what we do depends on the knowledge & expertise of the group
[19:11]  XSLT has a very clearly defined standard version
[19:11]  XQuery is not yet at this stage
[19:12]  do not preclude talking about new technologies 
[19:12]  would definitely talk about CSS3
[19:12]  XSLT 2.0 interesting case
[19:13]  How close do we need to be
[19:13]  if spec changes examples can change
[19:13]  Still publishing Techniques as WD
[19:13]  Not yet Note status
[19:13]  when Note status harder to change
[19:14]  FAQs & articles easier to change
[19:14]  wouldn't want to see a Note with fixed examples when stilll in working draft
[19:15]  would there be a problem of FAQs, etc, getting out of sync with Techniques
[19:15]  handy Matthieu in room as W3C webmaster
[19:16]  If we dev language tagging version 1
[19:16]  then in a year's time ....
[19:17]  Should this document 'Specifying the language of content' have a version number?
[19:18]  Analogies with HTML specs
[19:19] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
[19:19]  Slightly different ways are used
[19:19]  No requirement for version number because a 'replaced' document, would never need to refer back to previous versions.
[19:19]  People always would want to use the latest one
[19:20]  Difficult to predict 
[19:20]  Extensibility issue
[19:20]  heard about yesterday at Plenary day 
[19:20]  (presentations will be available from the agenda)
[19:20]  'Evolution vs revolution' etc.
[19:21]  - extracting text from code
[19:22]  - how to sort info using XSLT
[19:22]  - how to change the encoding
[19:22]  - how to use the language information
[19:22]  what happens when you have mixed languages?
[19:22]  XSL 2.0 should be fixed
[19:24]  you can tell the language of the text you're taking...
[19:24]  - combining sources in different languages
[19:25]  sure there are plenty more 
[19:25]  not nec for XSLT 1.0
[19:25]  driving factor is what the content author wants to do / their task
[19:26]  XHTML / HTML / CSS
[19:26]  - are there things that are missing
[19:27]  - is there a sequence of stuff
AGREED:  Remove the 1.0 from the techniques doc title, since we will use the same short name for updated revisions

 - also a topic area
[19:28]  http://www.w3.org/2004/11/i18n-recharter/geo-charter
[19:28]  [buiilding a roadmap from items identified in the charter]
[19:28]  XHTML / HTML / CSS
[19:29]  - navigation
[19:29]  - language
[19:29]  - charset
[19:29]  - bidi
[19:29]  - text styling 
[19:29]  Here's what you'll be able to do
[19:31]  re css mentioned Perl module that can take CSS out of stylesheet & put into XML
[19:32]  Susan looking for a process rather than a topic
[19:33]  With these lists, Susan has some concern about knowing where we want to go to
[19:33]  We need a goal of what we need to achieve
[19:33]  Rather than brainstorming what we'd like to do 
[19:33]  What do we need to do to get to that place
[19:33] * russ has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[19:33]  Not just looking for the goodies to pick
[19:33]  Where are the gaps?
[19:34]  Tell content authors what they need to know 
[19:34]  Ideally topics would map to the vision
[19:34]  Is this realistic
[19:34]  Approach so far has been that's such a big thing
[19:34]  Let's eat the elephant one bite at a time
[19:34]  Given limited resources
[19:35]  Ensure bites are coming from the elephant not some other animal
[19:35]  Let's look back at the mission
[19:36]  quite vaguely expressed
[19:36]  but 2 piece
[19:36]  1) setting up the rules
[19:36]  2) getting them out there
[19:36]  Seen the need to go more for outreach
[19:36]  Maybe just as important as writing on 5 different aspects of XSLT
[19:37]  how do we get them out there?
[19:37]  We're not sure that developers come to the W3C as a resource
[19:38]  If we just dedicated to outreach more than to producing documents....
[19:38]  Getting traffic up
[19:38]  From Susan over to Russ
[19:38]  How many hits do we get
[19:38]  There is a hits page
[19:38]  How up-to-date is it?
[19:44]  what does a hit mean?
[19:44] * Najib has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[19:46]  quantitive / qualitative evaluation 
[19:47]  how satisfied are users with the information on the site?
[19:47]  how much are pages improving in terms of i18n?
[19:47]  Talk about the name
[19:48]  Not doing enough outreach
[19:48]  How to do it?
[19:48]  Pull back: what we're talking about is roadmaps....
[19:49]  Intended to help us to see how we get through the process...
[19:49]  getting us through our higher goals
[19:49]  - create educational material
[19:49]  - get it out there
[19:49] * Najib has joined #i18N
[19:49]  - get people to use it
[19:49]  Russ has same mission at MS
[19:50]  Has never been able to put down a roadmap per se
[19:50]  GEO is a service, not a product
[19:50]  we want to teach content authors for techniques for HTML, CSS, XSLT
[19:51]  also want to to teach tool developers
[19:52]  XSLT content authors 
[19:52]  how many content authors use HTML directly?
[19:52]  Not using a tool
[19:52]  Most people who do work with scripting, use that as a tool, 
[19:53]  but are often using that tool to output the HTML as a string
[19:54]  Change of definitions from lists of tasks to lists of audiences:
[19:54]  - subgroups
[19:54]  - experts
[19:55]  - html coders
[19:55]  - wysiwygers
[19:55]  - html coderws
[19:55]  - beginners
[19:56]  - server based scripters
[19:56]  - linguists vs beginners
[19:57]  Some overlap in the grousp
[20:00] <AndrewC> other audience, mentioned earlier in the day, langauge specific audiences, eg Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc 
[20:01]  Survey required: who's out there & how do we serve them?
[20:02]  better grasp of real users
[20:02]  how to get that information:
[20:03]  Shawn had reservations on survey
[20:03] <AndrewC> suvey probably unproductive
[20:03] <Deborah> do you have alternatives?
[20:04] <AndrewC> problem is there are two many ways of subdividing or identifying audiences
[20:05] <AndrewC> audiences listed so far .. fall into maybe three areas
[20:05] <AndrewC> audience in terms of skill level and knowledge
[20:05] <AndrewC> audience in terms of language rquirements
[20:05] <AndrewC> audience in terms of tools used
[20:06] <AndrewC> its a problem we struggle with locally ....
[20:06] <r12a> thanks andrew
[20:07] <AndrewC> map possibible audience in terms of needs?
[20:07] <AndrewC> not sure
[20:07] * russ has joined #I18n
[20:08]  could stick the list into WIKI
[20:09]  using lists to ask what they think - offer them a survey
[20:10] * matthieu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[20:12] <r12a> [break time]

[20:43] <r12a> http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoFaq1
[21:09]  [Playing with WIKI]
[21:09] <Deborah> Andrew you still there?
[21:09] <Deborah> Can you access the WIKI? 
[21:09]  Thinking about how WIKI works.
[21:10]  If new page created, then email should be sent to group advising that this page has been created.
[21:11]  Then people should subscribe to this page.
[21:11]  Mentioned about saving frequently.
[21:12]  Want to work out differences between different versions.
[21:21]  Rule is you only change if you are the author.
[21:21] * AndrewC has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[21:22]  How does the author respond to comments?
[21:23]  In the case of a typo, you could just fix it.
[21:24]  If you want to delete someone's comments, you would mark that you had done this.
[21:25]  Could we use one style to indicate comments.
[21:26] * AndrewC has joined #i18n
[21:26]  Follow the instructions about editing on the WIKI set out at the top of the document.
[21:28]  Instructions to be added at the top of every new WIKI page.
[21:30]  Make sure you go the the right page on the WIKI
[21:30]  It seems to be primarily owned by SW people.
[21:39] <AndrewC> wondering if a GEO index page should be built?  to point to all the GEO specific stuff in the wiki
[21:39] <AndrewC> haven't tried editing it
ACTION: RI, add links to wiki(s) from GEO home page
[21:41]  Convention - use 'geo' to start any new WIKI file name
[21:42]  Capture how to make page in WIKI

[21:50]  The plan/pipeline document will contain 2 items for each teleconf with 2 weeks notice to do the work
[21:50] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/geo/2004/article-devt-process.html

[21:53]  Liaison between other i18n groups
[21:53]  specified adequately in charter
[21:53]  will evolve
[21:54]  going through other items 
[21:54]  will do user scenarios tomorrow
[21:54]  outreach resources

[21:57]  use search feed in Bloglines
[21:58]  one search term = www.w3.org/International
[21:59]  these are blogs at blogline
[21:59]  Technorati allows you to do the same thing

[22:06]  WSG site
[22:06]  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
[22:06]  The Web Standards Group is for web designers & developers who are interested in web standards (HTML, XHTML, XML, CSS, XSLT etc.) and best practices (accessible sites using valid and semantically correct code). 
[22:09]  http://www.webstandards.org/
[22:09]  announcement of publications on wsg list
[22:10]  on this only

[22:10]  anyone know any other groups
[22:11]  mailing lists, also websites used
[22:11]  eg http://www.w3schools.com
[22:13]  http://www.i18ngurus.com/
[22:14]  then click on communities
[22:14]  you get to
[22:14]  http://www.i18ngurus.com/docs/993028933.html
[22:15]  So, developer resources = mailing, forums, web sites (both general & specialist)
[22:15]  We can push info to some & listen to other - mixed balance
[22:20]  How could DC have better dealt with w3schools 
[22:21]  initial contact - need a clear idea of what is wanted
[22:22]  eg add us to their resources
[22:22]  allow us to announce publications/resources
[22:22] <Najib> http://www.pcmag-arabic.com/
[22:23]  distinction on w3schools between what's missing & what's not yet there, eg (at that time) lang tag, charset vs bidi, ruby
[22:23]  ACTION: Russ, make list of dev resources & will try to divy up tomorrow
[22:24] <r12a> http://openweb.eu.org/
[22:24] <r12a> talk to karl about posting information to these folks
[22:26] <AndrewC> also some governments have central information points, ie http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/
[22:29] <AndrewC> http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/Research/WebSiteIssues/MultilingualIssues/multiling.htm
[22:29] * Susan has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[22:35] * Najib has quit IRC (Client exited)
[22:36] <r12a> [meeting closed for the day]


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Received on Thursday, 17 March 2005 09:27:52 UTC

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