W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-i18n-geo@w3.org > March 2005

Minutes 2005-03-03: GEO FTF

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:27:48 -0000
To: "GEO" <public-i18n-geo@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20050317092748.9F8674F100@homer.w3.org>

Minutes GEO Face to Face: 2005-03-03

[This obsoletes the email with subject "Minutes 2005-02-09: GEO FTF: 2005-03-03"]

Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Scribe: Deborah Cawkwell
Times are in GMT/UTC
Attendees: Richard Ishida (Chair I18N GEO), Deborah Cawkwell (BBC World Service), Martin Duerst (W3C I18N activity lead), Susan K Miller (Boeing), Russ Rolfe (Microsoft), Felix Sasaki (future W3C)
Attending via IRC: Andrew Cunningham
Regrets: none


NEW ACTIONS
-----------
ACTION: RI, implement agreed changes to resource boxes in techniques doc
ACTION: RI, add links to wiki(s) from GEO home page
ACTION: RR, make list of dev resources & will try to divy up tomorrow


Session Start: Thu Mar 03 14:54:05 2005
Session Ident: #i18n
[14:54] * Now talking in #i18n



REVIEW OF ACTIONS
-----------------
[14:54]  AC tests outstanding


[14:54]  XML tutorial for Arabic & Hebrrew
[14:55]  translation bi-di markup into French
[14:55]  will be a part of tutorial for www conference in April (Arabic & Hebrew)


[14:56]  RI has done presentations in Powerpoint
[14:56]  has found a way to transform Powerpoint to HTML
[14:56]  does this by taking screenshots of each slide
[14:57]  We always annotate slides so most of the information is in there anyway
[14:57]  demonstration of what the tool does so far
[14:57]  has taken existing tutorial as a test case
[14:58]  difference is the addition of screenshots
[14:58]  you could click on any screenshot
[14:58]  & go to a larger view where screenshot is bigger, more legible 
[14:58]  & includes notes
[14:59]  notes not yet integrated with SVG slides
[14:59]  SVG would be better to use as presentation slides
[14:59]  Definitely one way to show only slides
[15:00]  Ideally screenshot would be SVG not png
[15:00] <Deborah> Is the text of the slides in alt attribute
[15:00]  alt text currently only says slide
[15:01] <AndrewC> longdesc?
[15:01]  not currently 
[15:01]  but in development
[15:03]  longdesc could work with a URI
[15:03]  for screenreader
[15:03]  Richard will talk to WAI folks
[15:04]  [back to demo]
[15:04]  system allows you to jump from slides in HTML with png images back to tutorial
[15:04]  Work items list done




INFO SHARE
----------
[15:05]  new techniques index operational
[15:05]  for those not on last call
[15:06]  nav from home to techniques
[15:06]  takes you to techniques index
[15:06]  http://www.w3.org/International/technique-index
[15:07]  - links info for each technique link presented at this level
[15:07]  also outline link for each technique


[15:08]  new techniques doc published
[15:08]  Language of Content


[15:08]  Core is looking for reviewers of specs
[15:08]  Please put your hand up if you're interested
[15:08]  Different ways of doing it 
[15:08]  can send to Core
[15:09]  would not nec need to join that group
[15:09]  might need to be involved in teleconf
[15:09]  Deborah signed up for ATAG
[15:10] <AndrewC> ... as to hands up ...depends on which specs need reviewing ....
[15:10]  http://www.w3.org/International/core/reviews
[15:10] <Deborah> Andrew: see anything you like?
[15:11]  does reviewing have an effect on patent policy
[15:11]  there will be a clause
[15:11]  if you know of any patents relating
[15:11] <AndrewC> llooking, let richard know later
[15:11]  you need to declare them
[15:12] <Deborah> OK Andrew
[15:13]  This not clear in AT
[15:14]  http://www.w3.org/International/core/reviews#ATAG
[15:14]  ATAG 2.0


[15:14]  Combining of FAQ & articles list
[15:14]  done
[15:14]  no longer FAQ link from home page
[15:14]  http://www.w3.org/International/articles/


[15:14]  also added site search facility
[15:15]  restricted to i18n site only
[15:16]  not on every page (search)


[15:16]  Martin short update on what's happening with lang tags
[15:17]  Addison P & Mark Davis update 
[15:17]  was no standard for script tags
[15:17]  desire to include locale information
[15:17]  done work in IETF
[15:17]  individual submission
[15:18]  way to work within this org with setting up a working group
[15:18]  finished doc
[15:18]  lot of discussion on list
[15:18]  for checking lang tag registrations
[15:18]  at 1st last call
[15:18]  some people in some companies
[15:18]  said 
[15:19]  didn't see it before
[15:19]  more people got involved in discussion
[15:19]  more players
[15:20]  also some significant changes to doc
[15:20]  reg of tags to reg of sub tags
[15:20]  mailing list with rel parties
[15:20]  finished discussion
[15:20]  then to another last call
[15:20]  at that point things should have worked out
[15:21]  got down the wrong throat of some people
[15:21]  ISG  - if comes from WG...
[15:21]  then response can be complainers could have been involved in the WG
[15:22]  individual submission meant this couldn't work
[15:22]  2 last calls
[15:22]  deceision not been made yet
[15:22]  decision to make a WG
[15:22]  2 co-chairs
[15:22]  charter sent out on IETF list
[15:23]  if all goes well this WG will be started & should not need to spend so much time on the drafts
[15:23]  then 2 new documents about language tags
[15:24]  1) syntax, & how registry works
[15:24]  this system would allow more possibilities
[15:24]  2nd document will take a bit longer
[15:25]  then it would go to HTML, XML specs, etc
[15:26]  some specs point to RFC successors
[15:26] * matthieu has joined #i18n
[15:26]  not so clear for GEO
[15:26]  new thing is technically more complicated 
[15:26]  more details
[15:26]  more choices
[15:27]  will have to think what is important for whom
[15:27]  which of the features really gets used a lot
[15:27]  script important especially for Chinese
[15:27] * YvesS has joined #i18n
[15:28]  some aspects that are lesser used have a lesser requirement for lots of detail
[15:28]  element of redundancy with script information, eg with Japanese
[15:29]  2 documents
[15:29]  1) tags
[15:29]  2) how to match these tags
[15:30]  RFC 3066: Tags for the Identification of Languages
[15:30]  http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt


[15:31]  Introduction of Matthieu 


[15:31]  Team Photo next
[15:31] * Susan has joined #i18n
[15:59] * fantasai has left #i18n
[16:02] * Najib has joined #i18N
[16:02] * Diane has joined #i18n
[16:05] <Deborah> [Back after coffee]




REVIEW OF PREVIOUS CHARTER (WHAT WENT WELL WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BETTER)
--------------------------
[16:05] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/2002/05/i18n-recharter/WG-charter.html
[16:07]  Look at deliverables


[16:08]  Deliverable: Framework
[16:08]  Short document of intent
[16:08] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-guide-framework/
[16:09]  Identification what Techniques documents would be produced
[16:09]  & what they would look like
[16:09]  obviously now out of date
[16:09]  key reason done
[16:10]  to get common agreement
[16:10]  describes desire for task-centred approach
[16:10] * cgi-irc has joined #i18n
[16:10]  what want to achieve in terms of usability
[16:10] * cgi-irc is now known as az
[16:11]  Framework was produced, needs document to be refreshed if to keep it up to date


[16:11]  Deliverable: Guidelines
[16:11]  Failed to follow schedule
[16:11]  but not an issue
[16:11]  produced one big document 
[16:11]  then split it into three
[16:12]  current strategy we are following....
[16:12]  policy at the moment to work on one document at a time
[16:13]  need to spend a little more time to get the Techniques to Note
[16:13]  latter is more formal document
[16:13]  statement was a little vague
[16:13]  production of FAQs slowed down in the past few months
[16:14]  RR: we did well for a group that got together & had to decide where to go
[16:14]  what not so well is getting stuff out in timely manner
[16:15]  stuff out there is good & people are using it
[16:15]  some of us not our day job...
[16:15]  puts a burden on Richard
[16:15]  was a time when FAQs produced every week
[16:15]  then slacked off to work on Techniques document
[16:15]  not sure we recovered
[16:15]  only 3 people from original group
[16:16]  major turnover of people
[16:16]  loss of Tex, etc
[16:16]  dynamic of group changed a bigt
[16:16]  pretty committed 2 and half years ago
[16:16]  but that was on FAQs, 
[16:18]  initially all same job
[16:18]  now different sets of skills, different interests
[16:18]  getting into outreach & stuff like that
[16:19]  Richard does a lot of the writing these days...
[16:19]  some people doing more reviewing
[16:20]  RR in MS: day job is interrrupt based
[16:21]  DC agreed day job: problems with interrupts
[16:22]  People in other groups feel they need to put in a couple of weeks at a time
[16:22]  rather than working in a bitty way
[16:23]  preference to do more brainstorming in teleconf?
[16:24]  in doing reviews, we do break in to doing the brainstorming
[16:25] <az> dialing in again
[16:27] * nomuran has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[16:27] <az> back again
[16:28]  susan work process too diffused
[16:29]  susan & deborah getting focussed but late on Techniques document
[16:30]  what motivated us to get moving on that document
[16:33]  overwheming amount of information for new joiners
[16:33]  Susan never thought it would take this long to get up to speed
[16:33] * Diane has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[16:33]  tendency to loose focus on GEO work until agenda email arrives
[16:35]  could agenda be shorter
[16:36]  Richard made an effort to make shorter
[16:36]  just the things we'd get through
[16:36]  maybe slipping a bit, getting longer
[16:36]  Plan isn't succeeding on focussing 
[16:37] <AndrewC> mayb need to identify priorities?
[16:38] <Deborah> not clear about what to prioritise
[16:38]  Feeling we need a road map
[16:39] <Najib> I like the road map idea
[16:40]  Need feeling of movement
[16:41]  Deadlines maybe too vague
[16:42]  2 levels need to work on
[16:42] <AndrewC> milestones ... for eaxample ... each techniques doc going to note?
[16:43]  another problem
[16:43]  under last charter
[16:43]  lose on roadmap
[16:43]  grateful for anything....
[16:43]  also developed responsive approach
[16:44]  as a result of questions or web standards list
[16:44]  this is hard to put into a road map
[16:45]  milestones maybe for all 3 techniques docs
[16:45]  not just the deadlines though
[16:45]  interim stages
[16:46]  needs to be managable
[16:46]  prioritising: how can we do this
[16:46]  choose one thing a week
[16:46]  if we roadmapped everything...
[16:47]  priority 1 & 2 poss not just one thing
[16:48]  might work, if we get scheduling done as well...
[16:48]  plus if developing you work on that one thing too
[16:50]  worries about extra admin overhead
[16:50]  especially no desire for Gant charts
[16:54]  also enthusiasm for WIKI experiment
[16:54]  we should try it all together in the meeting
[16:56]  update notification via RSS reader 


[16:57]  also richard spoke with Shawn at WAI
[16:57]  After lunch wendy & Ben
[16:57]  [we're breaking for lunch shortly]
[16:57] <AndrewC> regarding RSS, Thunderbird can handle rss feeds as well as email
[17:00] * YvesS has left #i18n
[17:06]  [lunch - back at 1ish]


Over lunch Richard shows Wendy Chisholm and Ben Caldwell the latest developments we have made to our Techniques document format.



WAI VISIT
---------
[17:53] * az has quit IRC 
[18:27]  Wendy Chisholm & Ben Caldwell joined the meeting
[18:28]  They are involved in accessibility
[18:28]  Technique index with list of all techniques
[18:28]  plus top-level links to outline version & link
[18:29]  idea to separate resources
[18:29]  because that can often be updated,
[18:29]  whilst we wouldn't want to be updating the Technique as often
[18:30] * AndrewC_ is now known as AndrewC
[18:30]  Resources document
[18:31]  for every section in every techniques documents
[18:31]  each section has a resources part
[18:32]  but wnat techniques doc to be readable as a top-to-bottom document
[18:32]  what if included
[18:32]  if all resources included
[18:33]  then link at bottom to 'up-to-date list of resources'
[18:33]  arguable that easier to read without big blue-blocked resources interrupting
[18:33]  issue about which resource links to which technique
[18:34]  maybe less background colour would help
[18:34]  how should resources separateness be indicated?
[18:34]  should it stick out or stick in?
[18:35]  what to do when new document available?
[18:35]  RFC 3066bis 
[18:35]  could not just be pasted in
[18:35]  other simpler stuff could be
[18:36]  Resources have different sections:
[18:36]  Background information
[18:36]  How tos
[18:36]  Sources
[18:37]  distracting duplication?
[18:37]  Could the information go on one line?
[18:37]  Would that make it easier to read?
[18:38] * Susan has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[18:38]  Not about changing the length of the document, it's about the resources not disrupting the flow too much
[18:38]  could it be collapsible (ie. JavaScript)
[18:39]  Richard unsure about using it?
[18:39]  Ben: has it ever been done in TR space?
[18:39]  Would JS have to be used?
[18:39]  Worry with JS that might not be forward-compatible
[18:39]  Russ: why not ask the audience?
[18:40]  Worst off is that the answer is no
[18:40]  Matt is in meeting 
[18:40]  Says JS should not be used for this
[18:40]  Thoughts of achieving this result with stylesheets
[18:40]  but JS would be needed to change the stylesheets
[18:41]  Wendy had no problem with these blocks interrupting the flow
[18:41]  These blocks are a lot of the content
[18:41]  Wendy: feels it adds credibility
[18:41]  If you read the document without these, you could feel they just talk about it
[18:42]  Desire to know what the references are behind this information
[18:42]  Depends on audience & task
[18:42]  Developer vs reading for input / communication
[18:42]  For the latter you need the info behind the technique
[18:43]  For the former, (maybe) you just want to know how to do it
[18:43]  Does it get in the way?
[18:43]  Yes, likes lots of white space & not clutter
[18:43]  eye drawn to box not to the other information
[18:43]  info in box is scannable
[18:43]  nicely laid out
[18:45]  Heading of technique is too similar to boxing style
[18:45]  should leave in (resources box) but look at the styling
[18:45]  indentation - could be used?
[18:45]  could the box be floated off to the right?
[18:46]  If mostly there isn't any more, do you want to send somone off to 'latest / most up-to-date'
[18:47]  [3 people in meeting live in Seattle: Wendy, Susan, Russ]
[18:47]  [could conf be in Seattle]
[18:47]  Floated to right - would all examples fit?
[18:47]  Too much going on
[18:47]  So many colours, fonts, alignment differences
[18:48]  too much clutter
[18:49]  styling should be less obstrusive
[18:49]  Pink boxes have same colour text ...
[18:51]  cf Bert Bos presentation style
[18:51]  tried with a few browsers
[18:52]  some not rendering ok
[18:52]  but still works 
[18:53] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/2005/02/3GSM-2005.html
[18:53]  use of boxes with corners, shadows
[18:54]  doesn't work in IE
[18:54]  new version IE
[18:54]  Summary: work on styling required 
[18:55]  Don't remove rosources from document
[18:55]  but add a link at the bottom
ACTION: RI, implement agreed changes to resource boxes in techniques doc
[18:55]  [Ben & Matt introduced:  Wendy feels important work they can do together]



CURRENT CHARTER REVIEW & ROADMAP DISCUSSIONS
--------------------------------------------
[18:56]  Latest charter
[18:57]  Deliverables
[18:58]  http://www.w3.org/2004/11/i18n-recharter/geo-charter#deliverables
[18:58]  Topic areas:
[18:58] * Susan has joined #i18n
[18:59]  Refine the Working Drafts of the following techniques documents in the series 'Authoring Techniques for XHTML & HTML Internationalization', and move to Working Group Note status:
[18:59]  Expectation that more techniques docs would be delivered
[18:59]  Produce a tutorial on implementing markup for right to left scripts (eg. Arabic and Hebrew).
[18:59]  Produce advice for styling Chinese, Japanese and Korean sites, based on current capabilities of CSS2 and previewing capabilities expected with CSS3.
[18:59]  will be done by Richard for www conf
[19:00]  New question/direction:
[19:00]  Begin work on advice for authoring tool developers related to declaration of language and encoding in XHTML.
[19:00] * russ has joined #I18n
[19:00]  what should tool developers do?
[19:00]  Also:
[19:00]  Provide how-to information about use of multilingual features in XSLT.
[19:00] <Deborah> so branching away from HTML
[19:01]  Mentioned briefly in original charter
[19:01]  v vague then
[19:01]  Note, in addition, that the GEO WG will assist in the development of guidelines by the ITS WG relating to DTD and XML Schema internationalization.
[19:02]  Also, assistance for ITS WG
[19:02]  Thoughts on this?
[19:02]  Nice to talk about roadmaps
[19:03]  Outreach time: consensus time has come to get stuff out there
[19:04]  given that lots of information has been produced
[19:04]  Breakdown of tasks
[19:04]  eg 
[19:06]  Provide how-to info about use of multilingual features in XSLT:
[19:06]  which ml features?
[19:07]  what sort of how-to info
[19:07]  - extracting text from code
[19:08]  which Richard has done for techniques document
[19:09]  eg, using an XML config
[19:10]  Some languages might use word & numbering in different sorts of combinations
[19:10]  Felix question:
[19:10]  is there a reason why you focus on XSLT
[19:10]  suggests advice on XQuery
[19:10]  Richard was asked to choose a few days before charter
[19:11]  what we do depends on the knowledge & expertise of the group
[19:11]  XSLT has a very clearly defined standard version
[19:11]  XQuery is not yet at this stage
[19:12]  do not preclude talking about new technologies 
[19:12]  would definitely talk about CSS3
[19:12]  XSLT 2.0 interesting case
[19:13]  How close do we need to be
[19:13]  if spec changes examples can change
[19:13]  Still publishing Techniques as WD
[19:13]  Not yet Note status
[19:13]  when Note status harder to change
[19:14]  FAQs & articles easier to change
[19:14]  wouldn't want to see a Note with fixed examples when stilll in working draft
[19:15]  would there be a problem of FAQs, etc, getting out of sync with Techniques
[19:15]  handy Matthieu in room as W3C webmaster
[19:16]  If we dev language tagging version 1
[19:16]  then in a year's time ....
[19:17]  Should this document 'Specifying the language of content' have a version number?
[19:18]  Analogies with HTML specs
[19:19] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
[19:19]  Slightly different ways are used
[19:19]  No requirement for version number because a 'replaced' document, would never need to refer back to previous versions.
[19:19]  People always would want to use the latest one
[19:20]  Difficult to predict 
[19:20]  Extensibility issue
[19:20]  heard about yesterday at Plenary day 
[19:20]  (presentations will be available from the agenda)
[19:20]  'Evolution vs revolution' etc.
[19:21]  - extracting text from code
[19:22]  - how to sort info using XSLT
[19:22]  - how to change the encoding
[19:22]  - how to use the language information
[19:22]  what happens when you have mixed languages?
[19:22]  XSL 2.0 should be fixed
[19:24]  you can tell the language of the text you're taking...
[19:24]  - combining sources in different languages
[19:25]  sure there are plenty more 
[19:25]  not nec for XSLT 1.0
[19:25]  driving factor is what the content author wants to do / their task
[19:26]  XHTML / HTML / CSS
[19:26]  - are there things that are missing
[19:27]  - is there a sequence of stuff
AGREED:  Remove the 1.0 from the techniques doc title, since we will use the same short name for updated revisions



[19:27]  GETTING STARTED
------------------------
 - also a topic area
[19:28]  http://www.w3.org/2004/11/i18n-recharter/geo-charter
[19:28]  [buiilding a roadmap from items identified in the charter]
[19:28]  NAVIGATION
[19:28]  XHTML / HTML / CSS
[19:29]  - navigation
[19:29]  - language
[19:29]  - charset
[19:29]  - bidi
[19:29]  - text styling 
[19:29]  Here's what you'll be able to do
[19:31]  re css mentioned Perl module that can take CSS out of stylesheet & put into XML
[19:32]  Susan looking for a process rather than a topic
[19:33]  With these lists, Susan has some concern about knowing where we want to go to
[19:33]  We need a goal of what we need to achieve
[19:33]  Rather than brainstorming what we'd like to do 
[19:33]  What do we need to do to get to that place
[19:33] * russ has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[19:33]  Not just looking for the goodies to pick
[19:33]  Where are the gaps?
[19:34]  Tell content authors what they need to know 
[19:34]  Ideally topics would map to the vision
[19:34]  Is this realistic
[19:34]  Approach so far has been that's such a big thing
[19:34]  Let's eat the elephant one bite at a time
[19:34]  Given limited resources
[19:35]  Ensure bites are coming from the elephant not some other animal
[19:35]  Let's look back at the mission
[19:36]  quite vaguely expressed
[19:36]  but 2 piece
[19:36]  1) setting up the rules
[19:36]  2) getting them out there
[19:36]  Seen the need to go more for outreach
[19:36]  Maybe just as important as writing on 5 different aspects of XSLT
[19:37]  how do we get them out there?
[19:37]  We're not sure that developers come to the W3C as a resource
[19:38]  If we just dedicated to outreach more than to producing documents....
[19:38]  Getting traffic up
[19:38]  From Susan over to Russ
[19:38]  How many hits do we get
[19:38]  There is a hits page
[19:38]  How up-to-date is it?
[19:44]  what does a hit mean?
[19:44] * Najib has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[19:46]  quantitive / qualitative evaluation 
[19:47]  how satisfied are users with the information on the site?
[19:47]  how much are pages improving in terms of i18n?
[19:47]  Talk about the name
[19:48]  Not doing enough outreach
[19:48]  How to do it?
[19:48]  Pull back: what we're talking about is roadmaps....
[19:49]  Intended to help us to see how we get through the process...
[19:49]  getting us through our higher goals
[19:49]  - create educational material
[19:49]  - get it out there
[19:49] * Najib has joined #i18N
[19:49]  - get people to use it
[19:49]  Russ has same mission at MS
[19:50]  Has never been able to put down a roadmap per se
[19:50]  GEO is a service, not a product
[19:50]  we want to teach content authors for techniques for HTML, CSS, XSLT
[19:51]  also want to to teach tool developers
[19:52]  XSLT content authors 
[19:52]  how many content authors use HTML directly?
[19:52]  Not using a tool
[19:52]  Most people who do work with scripting, use that as a tool, 
[19:53]  but are often using that tool to output the HTML as a string
[19:54]  Change of definitions from lists of tasks to lists of audiences:
[19:54]  - subgroups
[19:54]  - experts
[19:55]  - html coders
[19:55]  - wysiwygers
[19:55]  - html coderws
[19:55]  - beginners
[19:56]  - server based scripters
[19:56]  - linguists vs beginners
[19:57]  Some overlap in the grousp
[20:00] <AndrewC> other audience, mentioned earlier in the day, langauge specific audiences, eg Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc 
[20:01]  Survey required: who's out there & how do we serve them?
[20:02]  better grasp of real users
[20:02]  how to get that information:
[20:03]  Shawn had reservations on survey
[20:03] <AndrewC> suvey probably unproductive
[20:03] <Deborah> do you have alternatives?
[20:04] <AndrewC> problem is there are two many ways of subdividing or identifying audiences
[20:05] <AndrewC> audiences listed so far .. fall into maybe three areas
[20:05] <AndrewC> audience in terms of skill level and knowledge
[20:05] <AndrewC> audience in terms of language rquirements
[20:05] <AndrewC> audience in terms of tools used
[20:06] <AndrewC> its a problem we struggle with locally ....
[20:06] <r12a> thanks andrew
[20:07] <AndrewC> map possibible audience in terms of needs?
[20:07] <AndrewC> not sure
[20:07] * russ has joined #I18n
[20:08]  could stick the list into WIKI
[20:09]  using lists to ask what they think - offer them a survey
[20:10] * matthieu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[20:12] <r12a> [break time]



PRACTICAL SESSION WITH WIKI
---------------------------
[20:43] <r12a> http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoFaq1
[21:09]  [Playing with WIKI]
[21:09] <Deborah> Andrew you still there?
[21:09] <Deborah> Can you access the WIKI? 
[21:09]  Thinking about how WIKI works.
[21:10]  If new page created, then email should be sent to group advising that this page has been created.
[21:11]  Then people should subscribe to this page.
[21:11]  Mentioned about saving frequently.
[21:12]  Want to work out differences between different versions.
[21:21]  Rule is you only change if you are the author.
[21:21] * AndrewC has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[21:22]  How does the author respond to comments?
[21:23]  In the case of a typo, you could just fix it.
[21:24]  If you want to delete someone's comments, you would mark that you had done this.
[21:25]  Could we use one style to indicate comments.
[21:26] * AndrewC has joined #i18n
[21:26]  Follow the instructions about editing on the WIKI set out at the top of the document.
[21:28]  Instructions to be added at the top of every new WIKI page.
[21:30]  Make sure you go the the right page on the WIKI
[21:30]  It seems to be primarily owned by SW people.
[21:39] <AndrewC> wondering if a GEO index page should be built?  to point to all the GEO specific stuff in the wiki
[21:39] <AndrewC> haven't tried editing it
ACTION: RI, add links to wiki(s) from GEO home page
[21:41]  Convention - use 'geo' to start any new WIKI file name
[21:42]  Capture how to make page in WIKI



HANDLING WORKLOAD
-----------------
[21:50]  The plan/pipeline document will contain 2 items for each teleconf with 2 weeks notice to do the work
[21:50] <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/geo/2004/article-devt-process.html



OUTREACH IDEAS
--------------
[21:53]  Liaison between other i18n groups
[21:53]  specified adequately in charter
[21:53]  will evolve
[21:54]  going through other items 
[21:54]  will do user scenarios tomorrow
[21:54]  outreach resources


[21:57]  use search feed in Bloglines
[21:58]  one search term = www.w3.org/International
[21:59]  these are blogs at blogline
[21:59]  Technorati allows you to do the same thing


[22:06]  WSG site
[22:06]  http://webstandardsgroup.org/
[22:06]  The Web Standards Group is for web designers & developers who are interested in web standards (HTML, XHTML, XML, CSS, XSLT etc.) and best practices (accessible sites using valid and semantically correct code). 
[22:09]  http://www.webstandards.org/
[22:09]  announcement of publications on wsg list
[22:10]  on this only


[22:10]  anyone know any other groups
[22:11]  mailing lists, also websites used
[22:11]  eg http://www.w3schools.com
[22:13]  http://www.i18ngurus.com/
[22:14]  then click on communities
[22:14]  you get to
[22:14]  http://www.i18ngurus.com/docs/993028933.html
[22:15]  So, developer resources = mailing, forums, web sites (both general & specialist)
[22:15]  We can push info to some & listen to other - mixed balance
[22:20]  How could DC have better dealt with w3schools 
[22:21]  initial contact - need a clear idea of what is wanted
[22:22]  eg add us to their resources
[22:22]  allow us to announce publications/resources
[22:22] <Najib> http://www.pcmag-arabic.com/
[22:23]  distinction on w3schools between what's missing & what's not yet there, eg (at that time) lang tag, charset vs bidi, ruby
[22:23]  ACTION: Russ, make list of dev resources & will try to divy up tomorrow
[22:24] <r12a> http://openweb.eu.org/
[22:24] <r12a> talk to karl about posting information to these folks
[22:26] <AndrewC> also some governments have central information points, ie http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/
[22:29] <AndrewC> http://www.egov.vic.gov.au/Research/WebSiteIssues/MultilingualIssues/multiling.htm
[22:29] * Susan has quit IRC (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
[22:35] * Najib has quit IRC (Client exited)
[22:36] <r12a> [meeting closed for the day]



http://www.bbc.co.uk/

This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain
personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically
stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. 
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in
reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the
BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. 
Further communication will signify your consent to this.
Received on Thursday, 17 March 2005 09:27:52 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Tuesday, 8 January 2008 14:12:39 GMT