W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-i18n-core@w3.org > October to December 2008

RE: [SVGMobile12] Lack of BIDI 'direction' (ISSUE-2058)

From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:50:40 -0000
To: "'fantasai'" <fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>, 'Erik Dahlström' <ed@opera.com>
Cc: "'Doug Schepers'" <schepers@w3.org>, <public-i18n-core@w3.org>, "'www-svg'" <www-svg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <005e01c93aa7$42c9f150$c85dd3f0$@org>

The i18n WG discussed these issues last night with Fantasai, and we agree
with the proposed solution.

Thanks.

RI

============
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)

http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/



> -----Original Message-----
> From: public-i18n-core-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-i18n-core-request@w3.org]
> On Behalf Of fantasai
> Sent: 30 October 2008 10:46
> To: Erik Dahlström
> Cc: Doug Schepers; public-i18n-core@w3.org; www-svg
> Subject: Re: [SVGMobile12] Lack of BIDI 'direction' (ISSUE-2058)
> 
> 
> Erik Dahlström wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:48:24 +0100, fantasai
<fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Erik Dahlström wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:21:35 +0100, fantasai
<fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net>
> wrote:
> >>>> Doug Schepers wrote:
> >>>>> fantasai wrote (on 10/28/08 7:10 PM):
> >>>>>> Doug Schepers wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.2T/publish/text.html#DirectionProperty
> >>>>>>   # For the 'direction' property to have any effect, the
'unicode-bidi'
> >>>>>>   # property's value must be embed or bidi-override.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is false. As I explained before, the 'direction' property
alone has an
> >>>>>> effect when set at the paragraph level ("paragraph" being the unit
of text
> >>>>>> the bidi algorithm operates on).
> >>> I'm guessing this wording was the SVG translation of the following
sentence
> in CSS:
> >>> "For the 'direction' property to have any effect on inline-level
elements, the
> >>> 'unicode-bidi' property's value must be 'embed' or 'override'."
> >>>
> >>> So the question then becomes: what is an "inline-level element" in
terms of
> svg?
> >>>
> >>> I'm thinking that this might be the 'tspan' element, since that cannot
start a
> >>> text content block by itself. The 'tspan' element always needs to be
enclosed
> >>> in a 'text content block element'.
> >>>
> >>>> I suggest removing the text. The first quoted sentence is very
clearly wrong.
> >>> Is the corresponding sentence in CSS also wrong?
> >> The corresponding sentence in CSS is qualified as describing only
> >> inline elements, which are effectively invisible to the bidi
> >> algorithm unless 'unicode-bidi' is set.
> >>
> >> The same might be true of tspan elements *if* they are *never*
> >> responsible for bounding the bidi algorithm's paragraph (i.e. never
> >> form a "text chunk" in SVG terms). I don't know enough about SVG's
> >> text model to say if that is true. But 'direction' also applies to
> >> <text> elements (or should) so even if tspan elements are the
> >> equivalent of CSS's inline elements, then you'd need to qualify the
> >> statement to describe only them.
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification.
> >
> > Yes, in SVG 1.2 Tiny a 'tspan' element can never establish a "text
chunk"
> > since 'tspan' lacks the 'x' and 'y' attributes that give absolute
position
> > adjustments for text (note that these attributes are available in SVG
1.1
> > Full).
> >
> > Would the following replacement text satisfy your comment:
> >
> > "For the 'direction' property to have any effect on an element that does
> . not by itself establish a new 'text chunk' (such as the 'tspan'
element),
> > the 'unicode-bidi' property's value must be 'embed' or 'bidi-override'."
> 
> I would suggest writing the parenthetical as
>    (such as the 'tspan' element in SVG 1.2 Tiny)
> and s/by iteself/itself/ but either way is acceptable.
> 
> Please also remove the paragraph about glyph orientation, and I will
consider
> my comment satisfied.
> 
> ~fantasai
Received on Thursday, 30 October 2008 15:50:52 GMT

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.2.0+W3C-0.50 : Thursday, 30 October 2008 15:50:53 GMT