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RE: Feedback for rb from html5j.org (was RE: HTML5 and ruby

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:01:30 -0500
To: "public-i18n-cjk@w3.org" <public-i18n-cjk@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0D3297CC8F@MAILR001.mail.lan>
> From: fantasai [mailto:fantasai.lists@inkedblade.net]
> On 01/21/2012 11:50 AM, Koji Ishii wrote:
> > One guy said that double-sided ruby is used more than most people would expect.
> Kanji/reading/English is one use case. The other case is when to put ruby for the
> pseudo-Chinese reading (On-yomi in Japanese) and Japanese reading (Kun-yomi in
> Japanese.) He wonders why HTML5 doesn't have rb to express double-sided ruby and
> strongly wishes it back.
> 
> Hi Koji,
> If you could collect examples showing that double-sided ruby is more common than
> expected, I think that would help a lot. Hixie asked me for examples, but I was only able
> to provide one, and he didn't find it acceptable.

Thanks for a wonderful suggestion.

I asked at the ML and here are what I got from html5j.org[1] and public-html-ig-jp@w3.org[2].

1. http://klibredb.lib.kanagawa-u.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/10487/3712/1/kana-12-5-0009.pdf

Double-sided ruby in title (2nd page.) Page 13 (printed page number 164) has some more.

2. http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000129/files/694_23250.html

This is a publication from Aozora Bunko[3]. Its original data is written in Aozora-format, which supports double-sided ruby. The page above is converted to HTML. Since HTML currently does not support double-sided ruby, the converter currently converts double-sided ruby to a special annotation text in the format of "[#「ruby-base」の左に「ruby-text」のルビ]". You can find this markup within the page above. Aozora Bunko has more examples that has this annotation, another one is: http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/000908/files/51377_39744.html


3. http://www.lian.com/TANAKA/comhosei/print/photo/pp00016.jpg

A sample of Kanbun (old Chinese document annotated for Japanese readers).

4. http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1426219624

It's a Q&A site, the question is about how to layout Kanbun, and its best answer teaches how to enter double-sided ruby using Ichitaro, one of the most popular word processors in Japan.

5. One mentioned Japanese study references use double-sided ruby often. Haven't got scans yet.

6. One said he remember he saw double-sided ruby in a Manga, but can't remember its title.

7. One said it's widely used in Japanese history research papers, because the reading of ancient words only found in written materials were not determined and there are more than one way to read them.

I'll post further if I can get more samples, or scans of 5-7.

[1] (Japanese) http://groups.google.com/group/html5-developers-jp/browse_thread/thread/e17119e94c726961?hl=ja

[2] (Japanese) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-jp/2012Jan/thread.html

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aozora_bunko


Regards,
Koji
Received on Tuesday, 24 January 2012 15:04:32 GMT

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