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RE: Feedback for rb from html5j.org (was RE: HTML5 and ruby

From: Koji Ishii <kojiishi@gluesoft.co.jp>
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 09:46:44 -0500
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
CC: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>, CJK discussion <public-i18n-cjk@w3.org>
Message-ID: <A592E245B36A8949BDB0A302B375FB4E0D3297CB46@MAILR001.mail.lan>
> Just to be sure: When you say 'current HTML5 model', then
> what you have in mind HTML5's current letter-by-letter model:
> <ruby>W<rt>World</rt>W<rt>Wide</rt>W<rt>Web</rt></ruby>

Yes. Thank you for the clarification.

> In that regard, then I think the screen reader issues points to a
> wider problem relating to the fact that HTML5's letter-by-letter
> model creates a difference between what the
> user sees in his Web browser and the underlying code. Think about
> the following use cases:

Thank you again for adding more use cases.

I think we could say, with the current HTML5 model, authors cannot express what a word is in markups. "東京" is a word in authors' mind but there's no way to express that in HTML5. Letter-by-letter is another example. This lack of capability can cause real problems in fallback, selections, finding the word, TTS, and all other services that parses HTML such as Google Translate.

Does this express all your concerns?


Regards,
Koji

-----Original Message-----
From: Leif Halvard Silli [mailto:xn--mlform-iua@målform.no] 
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:30 PM
To: Koji Ishii
Cc: Richard Ishida; CJK discussion
Subject: Re: Feedback for rb from html5j.org (was RE: HTML5 and ruby

Koji Ishii, Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:50:27 -0500:
>> From: Richard Ishida [mailto:ishida@w3.org]

> He also pointed out issues about poor screen readers Leif and Margin 
> mentioned. If a screen reader reads both base and 
> ruby-text--unfortunately there are a lot of such screen readers 
> today--markups written in Fallback case works better than the current
> HTML5 model (とうきょうとうきょう is easier to listen than とうとうき
> ょうきょう.) I think that also clarifies author's intention of where word 
> breaks that screen readers might be able to do better job.

Just to be sure: When you say 'current HTML5 model', then what you have in mind HTML5's current letter-by-letter model:

<ruby>W<rt>World</rt>W<rt>Wide</rt>W<rt>Web</rt></ruby>

In that regard, then I think the screen reader issues points to a wider problem relating to the fact that HTML5's letter-by-letter model creates a difference between what the user sees in his Web browser and the underlying code. Think about the following use cases:

* Find-in-page: User wants to find all occurrences of 'WWW'. But currently, for the above example, then with HTML5's current letter-by-letter model, no Web browser will detect 'WWW'.

* Online translation services such as Google Translate: These services, as well, will not translate ruby correctly if the ruby is using HTML5's current letter-by-letter model correctly.
--
Leif Halvard Silli
Received on Sunday, 22 January 2012 14:49:39 GMT

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