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Re: Use cases for <hgroup> ? [WAS] revisiting <hgroup> in HTML

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 21:16:35 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=j-AvL5=PcZAv1xQJwAd_2-KtXhQ=mCSgTwoBHur-BBw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Leif:

And one could
> ask, if not the spec allows the above hgroup statement to be presented
> as follows, in a screen reader:
>    Heading: The reality dysfunction
> Subheading: Space is not the only void
> Which seems darn close to the effect of your own <subline> proposal,
> IMO.


no it does not the spec requires that browsers convey hgroup content as i
have previously indicated in accessibility APIs

"The rank <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#rank> of
an hgroup<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-hgroup-element>
element
is the rank of the highest-ranked
h1<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-h1,-h2,-h3,-h4,-h5,-and-h6-elements>
Ėh6<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-h1,-h2,-h3,-h4,-h5,-and-h6-elements>
element
descendant of the
hgroup<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-hgroup-element>
element,
if there are any such elements, or otherwise the same as for an
h1<http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-h1,-h2,-h3,-h4,-h5,-and-h6-elements>element
(the highest rank)."

translates into accessibility mapping:

"hgroup element heading role, with the aria-level property set to the
element's outline depth"

The hgroup becomes the heading.

> So what are the use cases for <hgroup>?
>


> To allow a allow a heading to consist of multiple levels without a)
> *having* to resort to CSS and/or b) without *having* to say (e.g by
> using <p> instead of <h2>) that e.g. the subheading *isnít* part of the
> heading.


but it doesn't do that it collapses heading semantics

regards
SteveF


On 6 March 2013 21:04, Leif Halvard Silli
<xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>wrote:

> Steve Faulkner, Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:16:17 +0000:
>
> > In regards to use cases, the only stated use case for <hgroup> is/was[1]:
> >
> > "The point of hgroup is to hide the subtitle from the outlining
> algorithm. "
> >
> > Its only stated reason for being in HTML is to support a non essential
> case
> > in an algorithm that is not implemented in any browser
> >
> > I suggest a  good starting point for supporting the continued inclusion
> of
> > <hgroup> in HTML would be to provide some use cases that actually warrant
> > the element.
> >
> > It should also be noted that hiding a subtitle from the outline algorithm
> > is no longer a requirement as the following was added to the spec some
> time
> > last year:
> >
> >> How a user agent exposes such multi-level headings in user interfaces
> (e.g.
> >> in tables of contents or search results) is left open to implementors,
> as
> >> it is a user interface issue. The first example above could be rendered
> as:
> >>
> >> The reality dysfunction: Space is not the only void
>
> Note that the above quote from the spec does not speak about the
> outlining algorithm (or more precisely, it doesnít speak about the
> outline, at least not in my interpretation of 'outline'). It speaks
> about how a hgroup element can be presented to the user. And one could
> ask, if not the spec allows the above hgroup statement to be presented
> as follows, in a screen reader:
>
>    Heading: The reality dysfunction
> Subheading: Space is not the only void
>
> Which seems darn close to the effect of your own <subline> proposal,
> IMO.
>
> > So what are the use cases for <hgroup>?
>
> To allow a allow a heading to consist of multiple levels without a)
> *having* to resort to CSS and/or b) without *having* to say (e.g by
> using <p> instead of <h2>) that e.g. the subheading *isnít* part of the
> heading.
> --
> leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 6 March 2013 21:17:45 GMT

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