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Re: Use cases for <hgroup> ? [WAS] revisiting <hgroup> in HTML

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:04:01 +0100
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20130306220401645197.901b1061@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Steve Faulkner, Wed, 6 Mar 2013 19:16:17 +0000:

> In regards to use cases, the only stated use case for <hgroup> is/was[1]:
> "The point of hgroup is to hide the subtitle from the outlining algorithm. "
> Its only stated reason for being in HTML is to support a non essential case
> in an algorithm that is not implemented in any browser
> I suggest a  good starting point for supporting the continued inclusion of
> <hgroup> in HTML would be to provide some use cases that actually warrant
> the element.
> It should also be noted that hiding a subtitle from the outline algorithm
> is no longer a requirement as the following was added to the spec some time
> last year:
>> How a user agent exposes such multi-level headings in user interfaces (e.g.
>> in tables of contents or search results) is left open to implementors, as
>> it is a user interface issue. The first example above could be rendered as:
>> The reality dysfunction: Space is not the only void

Note that the above quote from the spec does not speak about the 
outlining algorithm (or more precisely, it doesn’t speak about the 
outline, at least not in my interpretation of 'outline'). It speaks 
about how a hgroup element can be presented to the user. And one could 
ask, if not the spec allows the above hgroup statement to be presented 
as follows, in a screen reader:

   Heading: The reality dysfunction
Subheading: Space is not the only void

Which seems darn close to the effect of your own <subline> proposal, 

> So what are the use cases for <hgroup>?

To allow a allow a heading to consist of multiple levels without a) 
*having* to resort to CSS and/or b) without *having* to say (e.g by 
using <p> instead of <h2>) that e.g. the subheading *isn’t* part of the 
leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 6 March 2013 21:04:29 UTC

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