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Re: use of placeholder as a label for an input

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:23:28 +0000
Message-ID: <CA+ri+V=ZFumozJH7yU98xfH0jFqM+ya5Tse83F4X2LMay-3bLA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Maicej wrote:


> As an additional note note, Safari and Firefox both have text fields with
> placeholders but no visible labels, namely the address field when no URL
> has been entered. To persuade websites not to follow this reasonably common
> native idiom will require a good explanation.
>

also the windows login screen uses a placeholder for a label "password" as
does the Mac login screen if I remeber correctly.

The difference in these cases i think it that they are all common interface
elements that users interact with on a regular basis where placeholder used
as a label in web sites are often  used in a context where the user is
unfamiliar with the purpose of the input.


regards
SteveF


On 19 February 2013 06:34, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote:

>
> As an additional note note, Safari and Firefox both have text fields with
> placeholders but no visible labels, namely the address field when no URL
> has been entered. To persuade websites not to follow this reasonably common
> native idiom will require a good explanation.
>
>  - Maciej
>
> On Feb 18, 2013, at 10:28 PM, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote:
>
>
> <chair hat off>
>
> I think there are two counterpoints to consider:
> - It's generally not a great idea to have MUST NOT criteria that are not
> machine checkable; whether placeholder is being used a "an alternative to
> label" depends on intent and interpretation of the contents.
> - This pattern appears to be pretty common and a MUST NOT seems
>
> Also: You haven't explained why using a palceholder without any other
> label is insufficient. To make this concrete, consider the search box on <
> http://www.reddit.com>, which has a placeholder of "search reddit" and no
> other label. What concretely is the problem with this? There may be a
> reason this is bad, but you have not explained to the WG what it is.
>
> Regards,
> Maciej
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2013, at 8:54 AM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> The HTML spec currently states [1]:
>
> The placeholder attribute should not be used as an alternative to a label.
>
> should this be tighened up to MUST NOT?
>
>
> I believe there are cases where having a label associated using the label
> element may not be required, but can't think of any cases where the
> placholder attribute text suffices as the only label for an input.
>
> thoughts?
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/forms.html#the-placeholder-attribute
> --
> with regards
>
> Steve Faulkner
>
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html>
>
>
>
>
Received on Tuesday, 19 February 2013 07:53:21 GMT

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