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Re: Proposal for the deprecation of <blockquote>

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 13:47:01 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VnAvxbJNyKbO3dF14WfWmfZvh89c5j6HoJyoFkU-odQLA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bruce Lawson <brucel@opera.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Or this:

<blockquote>
<p><cite>Chris Mills</cite> said: "What's that on your face?"</p>
  <p><cite>I</cite> replied: Don't you like my goat<del>s</del>ee?</p>
  <footer><cite>bruce lawson</cite> - <time>August 2013</time></footer>
</blockquote>

--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>


On 16 August 2013 13:40, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:

> a  question: what is wrong (if anything) with using <footer> in this
> context to delineate citation from quote?
>
> <blockquote>
>   <p>Do you like my goat<del>s</del>ee?</p>
>   <footer><cite>bruce lawson</cite> - <time>August 2013</time></footer>
> </blockquote>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>
> On 16 August 2013 13:12, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jukka,
>>
>> I don't think I saw any actual reason, but that's really immaterial.
>>>
>>
>> to put it another way, I didnt see any good argument to restrict it
>>
>> From my review of the data, it is often used for attributing something to
>> an author (some examples)
>>
>> Posted by <cite>jvaughan</cite>
>>>
>>> <cite class="textalt text2xsml">~ Bob, Thornleigh</cite>
>>>
>>> <cite class="e company"><a href="/encyclopedia/company.php?id=10">Manga
>>> Entertainment</a></cite> says release is likely on October 22, will
>>> include digital comic.
>>>
>>> <cite class="e person"><a
>>> href="/encyclopedia/people.php?id=1009">Kouichi Yamadera</a></cite>, <cite
>>> class="e person"><a href="/encyclopedia/people.php?id=75973">Hiromasa
>>> Taguchi</a></cite>
>>>
>>> <cite>&mdash;&nbsp;<span class="quotescollection_author">Mark
>>> S</span></cite>
>>>
>>> <cite id="comments">
>>> 00644: <a href='http://www.ask-oracle.com/members/stefjay/'
>>> class='url'>stef</a> </cite>
>>>
>>> <cite>
>>> <a class="usuario" href="/usuario/kyra-on" title="Ir a la página de
>>> usuario de Maria Gonzalez">Maria Gonzalez</a>
>>> <img src="http://img.genbetasocialmedia.com/lp2/v2/images/stars-4.png"
>>> alt="*" />
>>> </cite>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>>
>>
>> On 16 August 2013 12:35, Jukka K. Korpela <jukka.k.korpela@kolumbus.fi>wrote:
>>
>>> 2013-08-16 14:10, Steve Faulkner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok so reading the various historical threads and articles on the issue
>>>> there appears to be good reasons for allowing the use of <cite> in context
>>>> of an citing an author as well as a title of a work.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think I saw any actual reason, but that's really immaterial.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Looking at how cite is used in the wild [1] it is often used in this
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Looking at the collection of actual usage, although it is often
>>> difficult to guess what the content really is and why <cite> is used, it
>>> becomes evident that software processing HTML documents cannot make any
>>> assumptions about the meaning of <cite>. Since people use e.g.
>>> <cite>|<cite>, <cite>46,282</cite>, and <cite>Copyright &copy; 2012 Fairfax
>>> Media</cite>, there's nothing semantic we can assume. The only thing that
>>> we can reasonably infer is that authors probably wanted the text to appear
>>> in italic, since that's how browsers actually render <cite>, and that's all
>>> they do with it.
>>>
>>> Since <cite> is in practice just one of the ways to italicize text
>>> (along with <i>, <em>, and <var>), there's no reason to assume that authors
>>> haven't used it that way inside <blockquote> elements, too. So assigning a
>>> semantic role to it when appearing in <blockquote> would be arbitrary and
>>> lead to wrong conclusions about existing documents.
>>>
>>> The practical impact would be small, if no software would actually do
>>> something based on a definition that says that <cite> somehow semantically
>>> relates to an enclosing <blockquote>. But if programs won't do such things,
>>> what does it matter which markup is used for quotations amd citations?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~**jkorpela/<http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Received on Friday, 16 August 2013 12:48:10 UTC

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