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Re: Split Issue 30?

From: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:48:14 -0500
Message-ID: <CA+c2ei9KT1FSwB6yyDRvn4x4yF77Arv6X5FEaewx4veEg57oEw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>
Cc: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, public-html@w3.org
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com> wrote:
> On 2/12/2012 3:42 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> >  Jonas, you have a different perspective too. That's OK, too. Multiple
>>> >  viewpoints are a good thing. We are fleshing out real issues in this
>>> >  process.
>>
>> It sounds like your only objection to allowing aria-describedby to
>> point to @hidden elements is that it will delay publishing a finalized
>> HTML5 spec. That is certainly an understandable argument, though given
>> the extreme inertia for changing semantics of existing features, I'd
>> rather spec the @hidden attribute correction from the beginning, than
>> wait to fix it in HTML6.
>
>
> My comment was intended as: we should wait to break current behavior, until
> HTML6. If you want to consider it like breaking a bone to reset it, that's
> the idea.
> The current situation of position, visibility: hidden and display: none is
> well tested, and I am certainly being conservative in my position of
> altering core CSS architecture.
>
> As I understand it, @hidden is a shortcut for display: none, in
> implementation and markup and may be implemented through the css selector:
> [hidden] { display: none; }.
>
> I'm concerned about the structural problems of altering the CSSOM behavior
> display: none.

No one is suggesting to change how CSSOM or display:none works. Please
see my change proposal, it does none of these things.

It sounds to me like you are worried about various changes to the
internals of browsers. So far none of the actual browser implementors
have expressed this concern. In fact, both Maciej and I have said that
this seems implementable and that we have to write similar code anyway
to support <canvas> accessibility.

I'd have a lot more understanding for you being concerned if you
actually were implementing a browser. I much rather that we ask people
who actually implement browsers what is implementable.

> I'm concerned that encouraging display: none for perceivable content may
> lead to a digital divide for users of older browsers and ATs.

This seems like an argument against adding any features to HTML5 or
any other standard to improve accessibility. Since any time you do
that you risk increasing the digital divide since only newer browsers
would support said standard.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. But I strongly disagree
with it. Especially in the context of writing new webstandards which
is what this mailing list is about.

/ Jonas
Received on Monday, 13 February 2012 02:49:12 UTC

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