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Re: Split Issue 30?

From: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:55:01 -0800
Message-ID: <CA+c2ei8EoXyfdXT+RGZDyJpxoXwr9fFJPwcfTR7vUZ7vm4rt-Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com>
Cc: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, public-html@w3.org
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Charles Pritchard <chuck@jumis.com> wrote:
> On 2/10/2012 9:45 AM, Jonas Sicking wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 12:16 AM, John Foliot<john@foliot.ca> wrote:
>>> (even though, as I have discovered via limited testing, what is
>>> being pointed to is returned back as null content to in the screen
>>> readers I
>>> tested, which is currently correct behavior) - the point being it is not
>>> specifically disallowed as far as I can see.
>>> What is at issue is what happens to content not visible on screen: the
>>> Accessibility APIs flatten the content to string text,
>> Note that no-where in the HTML spec does it say to treat @hidden, or
>> otherwise invisible, elements differently. I.e. there are no
>> difference in the normative requirements for an aria attribute that
>> points to a @hidden element, from one that points to a non-hidden
>> element. Hence I would expect them to behave the same. (Similarly, the
>> spec doesn't say that browsers should behave differently on thursdays,
>> hence I would expect browsers to behave the same on thursdays as it
>> does on fridays).
> "The hidden attribute is a boolean attribute. When specified on an element,
> it indicates that the element is not yet, or is no longer, relevant. User
> agents should not render elements that have the hidden attribute
> specified... The hidden attribute must not be used to hide content that
> could legitimately be shown in another presentation... It is similarly
> incorrect to use this attribute to hide content just from one presentation 
> if something is marked hidden, it is hidden from all presentations,
> including, for instance, screen readers."
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/editing.html

Good point. I've updated my change proposal to change this text appropriately.


>> I'm happy to modify my change proposal to make this explicitly clear.
>> I.e. add a normative requirement that says that browsers MUST expose
>> the full semantics the description pointed to be aria-describedby,
>> even when @hidden.
> We have aria-flowto as well.

This should be covered by my change proposal now. Though it's
technically separate from ISSUE-30.

> Screen readers have access to the DOM. But ARIA is fairly young, and common
> practices are still emerging.

I'm not sure how this is relevant to this thread? If I'm missing
something, please elaborate.

/ Jonas
Received on Sunday, 12 February 2012 12:55:59 UTC

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